you a nerd
1 Like
I love that the Jailer can speak and even be surprised. Iâm glad they are humanizing him to an extent and he isnât just some evil force of nature.
1 Like
Eh? I think I mightâve preferred that.
From voice lines of the Winter Queen or Archon (hard to say which as neither has spoken in the alpha yet) we know long ago the other Eternal Ones banded together to defeat and imprison Zovvel, who is referred to as a âMonsterâ for his past deeds.
I am guessing he has tried this whole âconsume all of reality into the mawâ thing before, but the normally impartial Arbiter stepped in that time. Likely the Arbiter holds a LOT of power as she has ties to the First Ones directly. This time he knocked her out and then began working to free himself and enacting a big conspiracy.
The First Ones probably were the ones to knock this Eternal One out(ripping out his Heart) and put the Arbiter in his place since a machine is better than a sentient Eternal One.
1 Like
My 99% shot in the dark guess is that the First Ones were the original Ethereals/Brokers, who Iâm certain are related (that speculation I donât think is that out there), before their planet got destroyed. And they built the entire Shadowlands as we see it.
The First Ones seem to predate even the Titans, and built the Shadowlands yeah. I donât think they have anything to do with the Brokers, who are only after profit really, and means of acquiring it.
They appear to be long dead. The brokers are searching for âthe Sepulcherâ, which appears to likely be the resting place of the First Ones. Perhaps Zovvalâs great sin that got him locked up was somehow slaying them.
Considering Danuser is a Fan of Babylon 5⌠It would be funny if the Great Clash of Light and Shadow was upon Kâaresh as it would mean Arcane and Fel were already clashing in the Twisting Nether when the Void clashed with the Light.
It would mean the Naaru(Vorlons), Ethereals(Walkers of Sigma-957), Brokers(The Hand of Death) and Old Gods(Shadows) are all the same Race that got derailed by the arrival of the Void Lords(Thirdspace Aliens)!
The original Race who created the Shadowlands and Great Dark Beyond would naturally be the counterpart to the First Born.
1 Like
Oh btw idk how many saw it, but in Maldraxus we learn that some long dead character (random name) fought against the Void Lords which is, as far as I know and everyone Iâve asked seems to agree, is the first mention of the Void Lords explicitly in WoW.
Dimensius doesnât really count as even if they eventually make him a real Void Lord, they certainly didnât have that in mind for him back in BC.
The Black Dagger refers to the Void Lords, if I recall right. She calls them her masters, and refers to Dimensius as a âshadowâ or âfragmentâ of their true power.
Bumping this one over the other one because itâs longer.
Other thread:
Theory idea:
I think Blizzard is going to write the First Ones as the Ainur of Tolkien-verse, specifically the Valar.
`https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Valar
I also think the First Ones generally are going to focus on a handful of Cosmic Powers, but not just one.
I think there are four. I got this idea mostly from The Dread Expanse youtube videos, but a question that has always bothered me is why the Forge of Origination, that basically resets the whole planet, has four keepers dedicated to the Sun (that has elementals protecting it, and Light powers), the Moon (Arcane magic, also moon/stars themed spells), Chaos (with Void beings protecting it, also Death themed spells) and Life (the most normal of all of them, but has some Death themed spells too)?
Inasmuch, and again this is pure speculation on a subject for which we have I think a total of four lines of dialogue to go by, and some âgapsâ in current in-game meta knowledge (e.g. who is the Earthmother, what is Elune, who is the Skyfather, etc):
Sun = Light, Chaos, Death = Anâshe/Belore = Manwe, maybe Irmo
Moon = Light, Life, Order = Elune/Musha = Varda Elentari
Dark = Shadow, Death, Chaos = Some Dude = Melkor/Morgoth Bauglir
Nature = Order, Life, Death = Earthmother = Yavanna Kementari
The Pantheons of each Cosmic Force are going to be lightly retconâd in being shaped by these First Ones (ie, Amanthul was helped along by the First Ones while still a sleeping World Soul), where each Pantheon of each Cosmic Force is like a micro-Maiar sort of council.
No, that would be the Titans. The First Oneâs take on a superior role, theyâd be like Illuvatar. They created the Titanbeings, the shadowland, all what you see around you.
I donât think Blizzard is going to go the One True God route like Tolkien did being a Catholic, I think the Valar (ie First Ones e.g. possibly Elune) will be the highest you can go. In that sense Blizzard is âupgradingâ the Valar.
The similarities between Varda and Elune are substantial imo, and compare the aesthetics of the Night Warrior to that of her primary chosen Maiar, Ilmare.
Am I the only one disappointed that the death theme is now made miniscule by being lesser than some other gods/first ones/whatever? I really wanted creatures like Bwonsamdi to be a bigger deal in the Shadowlands than theyâre ending up being.
I mean same, but Blizzard themselves admitted they didnât expect Bwon to be as popular so they decided to include him in Ardenweald, which means he wasnât in the original plans for Shadowlands AT ALL which is insane.
However,
Personally no. I want the mythos in WoW to be fully explained eventually, a comprehensive myth that you could write an epic poem over like Greek Hesiod or the Norse Edda or whatever, from start to finish, without multiple overlapping stories.
Once Chronicles formalized the Primal Forces, I already saw coming the notion of at least a few Supreme Deities, and expected (and still expect) Elune to be one of them. Where nobody is above them, and that WoW DOESNâT go the Monotheistic route where thereâs actually just one true creator God, but a transcendental small pantheon of primordial beings beyond comprehension. Which Iâm hoping are the First Ones.
I mean yeah but none of the Shadowlords are shown as competent creatures who can take on a titan.
Thatâs fair I guess. Idk. I wanted every cosmology to be separate but equal. Take Strahd from Barovia. You can kill him, possibly. Maybe. But it means duck all. Heâll just reform in a few days and youâll still be trapped in Barovia.
Or, to go the Supernatural route?
Itâs just so disappointing to see that Shadowlords are plebs, one and all.
1 Like
The thing is I think each of the Eternals arenât from the Shadowlands.
The Archon of Bastion, Kyrestia the FirstBORN
The Primus (ie FIrst) of the Five Houses of Maldraxxus
Sire Denathrius, Lord of Revendreth, First Blooded, Fangs of the Shadowlands
and the only one who doesnât have a corresponding first/born title is the Winter Queen.
So my theory:
The Primus is the âfirstâ because heâs the First Lich, First Chosen (aka DK), First Plaguemaster, First Assassin, and First Construct of the Jailer.
The Sire is âfirstbloodedâ because he was a being that the Jailer twisted into serving his end, and much like the Lich King turned the Blood Elves who hungered for magic into Sanâlayn who hungered for blood, I think MAYBE that Sire DeNATHRIus in Castle NATHRIa was originally a Nathrezim Demon that the Jailer twisted. Consider the new Revendreth preview that says even if we defeat Denathrius, heâll just reform.
Kyrestia is Firstborn because like weâve seen with all Valkyr-type being thus far, thereâs always a âfirstâ Valkyr, and its always a mortal soul who âascendsâ.
I think the Winter Queen (being based on Unseelie Queen mythology, and quite noticeable being Blue, and the in-game questing confirms she made Ardenweald, so why is it connected to the Emerald Dream) is actually Eluneâs daughter (so Cenariusâ sister) and originally from the Emerald Dream, and the Jailer kidnapped her (like Hades to Persephone). The reason why the Night Warrior of Elune always goes to Ardenweald (which the Winter Queen made), is to guarantee that her (Elune) daughter (her Blue Child, as it were) always has protectors and company loyal to her, much like Demeter made Hecate promise her to watch out for Persephone in the underworld since Demeter could not enter it.
3 Likes
But doesnât it bother you, then, that all of these Shadowlords arenât creatures inherently of the Death domain? Theyâre all outsiders.
No, because in almost all myths that is the case.
In Christianity, Satan/Lucifer was tossed down with all his armies into Hell.
In Islam, Iblis is tossed into Jahannam.
In Norse myth, Hel in Helheim is Lokiâs daughter.
In Greek myth, Hades is an Olympian God, not from the Underworld.
In Egyptian myth, Osiris wasnât originally in Duat.
Etc.
He tends to take a lot of guesses though and will claim he was right because one of them sticks. Remember how he said the end of BfA was going to be all about the Lich King?
1 Like