I hear you. Remember when everything was a “hack”
That one drove me nuts. Here is a hack on how to eat a banana that will change your life
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Doesn’t matter in what regard? That it isn’t necessary to clear content? Sure.
The necessity, or lack thereof, for min/maxing doesn’t make min/maxing invalid. It’s not about it being necessary.
No one is saying “You’ll never clear content if you bring a Ret.” They’re saying Ret is the worst spec, because it is, and the data proves it.
It’s always going to matter, because people are always going to care that compared to everyone else, you’re contributing the least in your role simply due to the limitations of your spec.
Not everyone will care, granted, and Rets can find a home in some guilds, but that doesn’t make them good.
“Ret is bad.”
“Min/maxing isn’t necessary.”
Such a nonsensical reply.
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Rets still trying to dps lol
My question is why are people still trying to make this work? Why are people wanting to put in extra work to use every gimmick in the book, to still just be C- dps.
Let’s just look at the most important thing: Manual Crowd Pummeler. 3 charges, lasts 30 seconds, 1.5 min CD right? Cool. Let’s say each boss fight lasts 4.5 minutes. That’s 1 MCP per boss. Molten Core has 10 bosses. You need to farm 10 MCPs per lockout, and that’s assuming your raid has 0 wipes.
You execute everything perfectly, pull off all your gimmicks and…you’re still behind a feral druid in half the gear using the same MCP gimmick.
Real nice. Give it up, ret is garbage, and posts like these will make people think it’s good and/or easy to do dps.
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People said this in Vanilla. People say this right now in BfA. Every MMO I’ve ever touched has made this claim and it doesn’t make it any more true. There are always improvements to be had and the general community of any given game tends to migrate towards those improvements.
Tell that to the many guilds that still died to Rag this week, or earlier bosses. Folks still fail at this game and the existence of people maximizing their characters and raid compositions does not mean you can just roll in, ignore sound play, and receive free loot. Take a look at any of the wipes that never net a kill and just take a moment to start counting the obvious mistakes so many of them made, including the spec decisions. No one person in those raids is singularly responsible for the failure, but collectively they all are.
That’s why the “it doesn’t matter” lie is so bad, its just blame shifting to do what you want. Its already happened in this thread and others: if the raid fails with a Ret in the raid, the immediate thing to do is call out the other DPS and raiders.
People aren’t forbidding folks from playing and calling out bad specs as bad isn’t some grand judgment against your character. People are taking it WAY too personally and you come in to post about how we’re wrong, while admitting you think no one is going to change their minds. You just came to troll.
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Its not. its not nonsensical. your contribution to the raid is the exact same you just get to look at higher numbers. you’re pressing just as many keys as they are, showing up, killing mobs.
Caring about a ret paladin who isn’t 25 on the dps meter but not 1 either is elitist as hell and would only be applicable in a situation where DPS mattered in downing the boss or not, the video in the OP the ret paladin is not last, why are we not kicking out everyone else below him then since clearly they can’t play their class to its fullest potential.
I get what you’re trying to say, but it’s just silly because the game doesn’t warrant it.
edit: Also, if people are wiping with any comp in this game, there are other issues, but it’s definitely not the DPS people can down these bosses before their mechanics even matter.
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No, I didn’t watch the video. Why would I? i already know what he’s doing and what the results were. This “spec” isn’t somehow new or revolutionary.
I also know that my 45 mage can easily top those numbers (not against an MC boss obviously, due to the resist mechanics, but against something in her level range… absolutely).
I don’t think people truly realize how bad the “bad” specs really are. They’re not like bad specs in retail, they’re like healers joining a group as a dps… minus any useful healing, and with even worse damage. A ret pally is basically nothing more than a walking fire resistance aura for one group… and that’s pretty much the extent of their contribution.
Yes. You can easily clear the current raids. They’re not difficult. That doesn’t magically change the fact that bad specs are bad. Take them if you want to, but don’t try to pretend these specs are somehow good. Don’t try to convince others they’ll be competetive at endgame playing them.
Also. stop pretending that it’s a choice between bad players playing good specs and good players playing bad specs. This is absolute rubbish. I see this argument time and again, and it’s a total fallacy.
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They’re also the only class with a battle rez so if you ever plan to raid you better bring some Druids because you’re probably going to need them. If your primary healers or tanks go down and you don’t have any Druids, well, have fun with that wipe.
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This is the last response you will get out of me but if this is intended to be troll or bait its very convincing. I cannot waste anymore time with you that isn’t the point i was making i hope after this one you can kind of understand if not then i did try lol
I think that people getting upset over the spec people are playing is hard to read and nonsensical. That was the point. Yes it is wrong to be visibly and emotionally upset over it.
I hope this helps man. If not then oh well lol have a good one
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People aren’t upset over it. That’s what others are reading into the criticisms. When someone calls Bear Druids terrible Tanks in Vanilla, that tells me they don’t know the math behind the spec, not that they have a secret hate-crush for Druids.
I think the Retribution theme is fantastic, and I do wish it performed better or brought something useful and unique, but it just doesn’t. Balance Druids have a very strong unique aura but even that doesn’t save them from just being utterly trashed by Warlocks and Mages playing at the same skill (spamming one key).
These aren’t indictments of players, but indications of the state of the game. Rets suck right now, objectively so. Do what you want with that information.
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Man, I cannot imagine being this negative over a 15 year old game. Genuinely feel sorry for people who have to put up with this mindset.
You know what’s selfish? Forcing players to follow some boring meta that is not even remotely necessary to down the bosses
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Spelladin was something I was looking at but cannot be arsed to level a paladin atm.
Atm going with a searing pain demo lock, not sure how good it will be but have been timing searing pain and immo and so far haven’t pulled much agro. Means I can maybe go full fire.
so removing sp gear from actual casters to pimp up a ret
good
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Why would anyone care? Raiding isn’t gonna be demanding at all until the latter parts of AQ40 and the later bosses of naxx, and even then sub-optimal specs are well within the margin of doing the content in a reasonable amount of time.
The concern of those who only want the absolute best performance in their raid is entirely irrelevant to those who are interested in sub-optimal specs in the first place. They’re not gonna be playing with each other, and chances are, they won’t even talk to each other.
What’s really ironic is that so many players think they’re good at the game for just copy/pasting a meta build and BiS list without even thinking. No, they’re not good, the class is - it’s playing the game for them. It’s the easy button, the “on-rails” experience of the game.
Good players aren’t defined by where their bar is on details, skada, or what have you. That’s just pseudo-PvP. Good players are those who work together, and understand there’s more than being the top DPS because, frankly, in Classic the best builds are actual overkill for most content. The tuning is that out of whack. Raiding is a cooperative activity, not competitive.
It’s like so many paladins running in sanc aura instead of ret aura even though they lack the SP to make sanc aura better than ret. The reason is because ret aura shows up as the tank’s damage instead of theirs, making them look worse than they are at a glance, in spite of the fact that ret aura damage coming from the tank is technicaly their damage…
…but meter-mongos will never grasp this concept, nor anything similar, thus paladins feel compelled to use sanc.
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Spelladin < Shockadin.
tl:dr Bring the player, not the class/spec! And yes, you are absolutely right imho.
I don’t think you realize how much of what you said is untrue lmao.
Either way, there are only two reasons to force players into the meta in a 15 year old game:
- You’re a dedicated min/maxxer. Nothing wrong with this, just like nothing wrong with playing more relaxed.
- Your guild is full of below-average players and you need to make this fight as simple as possible
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By below average he means below average iq or skill. It’s the only real time min/max matters.
Only problem here is that your first raids are all Fire immune/resistant
Sadly this is true. I loooove fire mage but I know I can’t do dmg as fire mage in ony/mc 
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There will always be someone on the bottom. What if it were warriors?
As an aside, the only real reason people “protest” Ret is they’re warrior mains that don’t want gear competition, so they find whatever they can to marginalize others.
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