The elitists and toxic players wont be polite about it. Theyll either push the players who don’t want that fast paced/competitive gameplay mentality OR they will do things like many of the posters here have already claimed…kicking people out, harassing them, pulling extra etc. All acts that make players not want to even play social content.
And, they will reason this away by trying to claim its “teamwork” or “part of the game” or whatever other nonsense they want to assure themselves they are in the right and its everyone elses problem if they dont agree.
The DEFAULT position of players should be to be chill, enjoy the game in a way the majority of average players would want to experience it and to be supportive. The default position should be, within some reason, to be understanding and relaxed and go at the pace the lowest one or two people in your group is comfortable with. That doesnt mean let a tank waste an hour of your time or constantly afk…but it also doesnt excuse the poor behavior toxic players persist with.
Instead what we get are entitled brats that think its everyone elses issue and they are in the right because competitive fast play MUST be what “everyone” wants and that the game is designed around it because Mythics exist.
No matter that metrics show MOST players dont actually do mythic past a basic level, if that. No matter the hundreds or even thousands of posts on this topic over the last 15 years.
The toxic players will suggest its the OPs issue hes slow or not good enough and he should go form his own special group… rather than going and forming their own elite groups to zoom through dungeons. Just like bullies on a playground theyll make it everyone elses issue and say its the “slow” persons problem and they should be the one to make special allowances. Completely oblivious to their own hypocrisy and cringe thinking
(Edit: I do, mostly, refer to general game modes…non Rated BG, normal/heroic dungeons, LFR etc. Obviously if youre going into a competitive mode you should be trying harder. Its still no excuse for anyone to act like a jerk in any event)
Politeness would be good, but there isn’t anything politeness would fix when two antithetical values meet where action has to be taken. Someone has to leave to be polite and incur a deserter timer in non +s, or stay and get less IO/loot in +s.
You run into the hypocrisy issue by telling people what they should feel. People who’s brains are wired for efficiency will get stir crazy when that is not occurring or being attempted.
This is the actual solution though, for everyone to be in groups of like minded people. Yet, that is still also the cause of the problem, not everyone has a group to run with. Some people only have other DPS to run with. And tanks will always be looking for other people besides tanks.
All I can really say is this, If you get group with someone who values their time based on how many rewards they get in said time, and other people hinder that, there is not middle ground for that situation.
Planning your strategies and experiencing the dungeon is literally practicing, for one thing. For another, yes, I am an experienced player, particularly in the DPS and Tank roles, but that doesn’t mean I play every tank or don’t adjust/rework my action bars and/or weakauras when a new expansion and spec paradigm comes out.
A player who wants to be thorough needs dungeon experience and at least a little practice to get into the swing of things or, perhaps, they’re trying to experience and learn a new tanking spec.
If you play Tank and all you do is faceroll some buttons, you are not playing any spec to it’s full potential and missing out on a myriad of cool things you can do. For example, I personally get a chuckle out of druid tanks who don’t have a quick bear<->cat shift macro to run to the next pack quickly. And anyone can tell an experienced warrior tank from an inexperienced one as a practiced prot warrior will be leaping from pack to pack, charging to interrupt casters and then back into the group, etc.
But, those are things a player picks up through practice and truly wanting to optimize their playing experience in a non-elitist manner. Those are also skills a player is less likely to develop if they’re stressed when running dungeons because of, say, having to constantly pull aggro off of DPS who are impatient. (We get it DHs and Monks; you’re fast and you can beat most tanks down the hallway. Just wait and chill.)
I dont understand the incessant need of acting like the tank needs to follow the group. If anything, its the healer that has any right to tell the tank to pull more.
“Find another group” is a completely garbage argument because thats the entire point of M+, to pull more and faster. Why is anyone here defending the stupid ahh mentality of demanding speedrun pace in normal and heroics? Thats what M+ is made for, so this whole thing of finding another group starts from yourselves.
I 100% agree with OP. The fact that people are asking for parses for timewalking nowdays is the cherry on top. You can all blame Blizzard all you want, but its not the devs kicking people because big number isnt big enough.
I think blizzard absolutely has a huge part in exacerbating the tryhard/toxic culture with how they implement some of their systems…but then again, I think lots of us veterans can say it’s always been this way.
The timer needs to be removed from M+ it is the core of the problem specifically in your situation. It continues to degrade normal, heroic, timewalking, M0/+2-5, and LFR. Developers should structure the mobs and layout to punish the abusive non-tank pullers with more consequences and for tanks when they out-distance teammates, which puts the entire run in jeopardy resulting in a worse-than-sour frustrating experience.
M+ should reward clean efficient gameplay using a point system that would complement PvP playstyles, meaning the use of interrupts, stuns, and crowd-control abilities. The “go faster” until players start dying mindset is the most toxic, abusive, selfish, and inconsiderate playstyle for the casual and normal-level player. A MMORPG should not be designed around 1 player having control over 4 or even 24 other players.
Clearly not, because the group voted for a different tank within the bounds of allowable game design. Being a tank doesn’t elect someone to decide for others anymore than I can say ‘if you pull more than X mobs I’m not healing’ as a healer.
We’re doing random content, with random people. Some days it works out, some it doesn’t. There’s been many times where groups are doing content in a manner that I find makes it unfun, you’ve just got to decide to roll with it and get it over with, or leave.
Very well, I thought what you said was so patently untrue that you wouldn’t even push the matter.
Ridiculous. People learn by doing and not everyone is a “paint by number lemming WoW player”. If you enjoy that style so be it, but it isn’t for everyone.
Useless advice. These are not the same as M+ and shouldn’t be treated as such. People can practice wherever they would like and your ‘opinion’ has no bearing whatsoever on this matter.
So? This holds true for all roles.
The inverse is actually true, if you can’t handle pugs then just play with friends.
And by the way, this is the best advice you could have ever given yourself. Follow it.
How is it useless advice when you literally just talking about people learning by doing? Followers and Delves are not the same as M+ or LFD, but the base tanking skill will transfer.
Yes, but more so with a tank or healer because there’s one 1 per group vs 3 dps.
It does. Maybe not to you, but it does to people that read well.
Because you can play a BrM in a follower dungeon and think you are doing well and then go into content that is much harder and find out you aren’t prepared.
Don’t care.
Neither am I. I simply said that your advice sucks and no one should follow it. It was garbage advice.
You clearly don’t since you haven’t even tanked much (didn’t even tank in BFA when M+ was a challenge) and apparently only tank and still you don’t push any higher than I do when I casually tank. You really don’t know what you are talking about, but I can see you have your ego tied up in this game lmao.
If you think Delves or Follower Dungeons make you a tank, you really need to stop talking about it.
A measuring stick is useless for Mythic + no matter how high you are because someone is always going to be or pretend to be better.
And the growing disparity of skill is ever more evident that it wouldn’t be surprising something implodes soon. But then again Blizz has been nerfing the worst of the worst this season so it evens out the rough edges somewhat.
