The Drac'thyr are Queer-Coding Done Right!

[Gumble-arthas (Gumble)]

Lets all stop putting real world politics of any sort into video games where we fight zombies and dragons.

[Zuldazaur-zuljin]

apparently you have listed ‘a set of rules’ somewhere in this thread which makes some people who were excited about dracthyr now scared to play them as it may represent the ‘other’ they are so afraid of.

the discussion has now shifted to victimizing people who do not see dracthyr as queer-coding done right because they are now forced to see what you see… and they said you were reaching, oh the irony.

[Borkenstein-grobbulus]

@Keldar-sargeras

I am as boring as they come. Older, cismale, white, in a nuclear family with a claim to some Native American ancestry. Completely generic.

These are things that make someone boring? You cannot be these and be an interesting person? This seems a little racist to me.

[Igotmadclout-area-52]

People like the OP are acidic to the community. Blizzard showing blatant favoritism to these type of threads is why I am leaving.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

@Thallia-sentinels

You made a numbered list of rules.

Those aren’t rules. They’re observations.

@Thallia-sentinels

And that’s not true. You just lumped all non-binary into one category and said this is the only race that represents them. Let’s not think about how others may feel, let’s just outright tell them this is the only one they have.

Then you go on to make rules about how gender-fluid should feel and how the visage form is a drag queen.

All you’ve done here is make those that don’t fit into your concept feel like they’re wrong if they just want to play a dragonkin because it’s a dragonkin. Or that they can’t play this race, because they’re not non-binary and it’s only for non-binary.

I did have some problematic phrasing there, which I did change when it was pointed out. But even then, I’m still not seeing where I’m saying that the way I see this is the only way for it to be seen. As I’ve mentioned multiple times, the whole point is that this representation can exist without people that aren’t looking for it ever noticing. This isn’t overt. It’s not forced. It’s simply unobtrusive integration.

[Zuldazaur-zuljin]

@Thallia-sentinels

All you’ve done here is make those that don’t fit into your concept feel like they’re wrong if they just want to play a dragonkin because it’s a dragonkin. Or that they can’t play this race, because they’re not non-binary and it’s only for non-binary.

O my god, they wrote it, they wrote this and posted it.

I am gobsmacked

I am flabberghasted

I am bamboozled

[Atalanta-trollbane (Atalanta)]

I mean, we’ll get statements to that effect for sure - eventually. The reality is, though, that no matter how delicate the strokes you make are, the simple presence of something that someone doesn’t like is seen as “intrusive” by just being there.

As a gay man who’s married to a man, I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told (argued at) that it’s fine that we’re gay and all that but it’s not right for us to shove it in peoples faces. Since, you know, kissing my husband goodbye, holding his hand, or sitting close together on a bench in the snow with some hot chocolate, is very obviously us shoving it in people’s faces. It’d be fine if we did normal stuff, of course, like not be gay in public apparently.

Just wait, we’ll see it.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

I mean… I posted this because I am excited to play the race. And the first thing I did was establish that I am none of these things. It would make no sense for me to create a “rule” that would disallow myself to engage with the thing for which I myself am hyped.

The whole point is unobtrusive inclusiveness. At no point do I even hint at disallowing anyone to play or think in a certain way. I sense that baggage from other discussions make be seeping in here.

[Benmarch-zuljin]

@Keldar-sargeras

Can you elaborate on this? I’m not seeing where I make that assertion. I do see three points at which I mention that this is an unobtrusive integration, however.

I don’t know for him but here is what I think about it being forced.

It is as if I was to take a photo of trees in my backyard and then post it saying with a straight face “How nice of mother nature to be supportive of X cause” and believing it when there is arguably nothing special about the trees I photographed and no link whatsoever between the 2. It’s disconnected.

There is absolutely nothing that was said/released/announced/revealed by Blizzard that would even start to remotely suggest your interpretation. It is quite literally based on no information at all.

Henceforth the “forced” feeling because there is absolutely nothing that was hinting us in this direction. Which means in turn that you really had to heavily bend the meaning of their “look” around to come to this conclusion.

[Thallia-sentinels (Thallia)]

@Gumble-arthas

Lets all stop putting real world politics of any sort into video games

Real world politics have been in video games for a very very very long time. And there’s nothing wrong with those who feel that this is a good fit for them. The issue is telling others that this is how they must feel.

When a trans friend of mine comes to me with anxiety after reading this, because now they feel they’re going to get called out for how they want to play this game, since someone had to make a set of rules about this… that’s where I try to show some perspective.

@Keldar-sargeras

Those aren’t rules. They’re observations.

And therein lies the issue: you don’t see how others view it.

@Keldar-sargeras

I’m still not seeing where I’m saying that the way I see this is the only way for it to be seen.

Literally just quoted it for you.

@Keldar-sargeras

the whole point is that this representation

That’s how you see them. Not how everyone does.

@Keldar-sargeras

This isn’t overt. It’s not forced.

You literally just made it that way. You’re the one that made this front and center:

@Keldar-sargeras

This is the only race that a non-binary individual (or anyone that doesn’t otherwise identify with male or female) can be represented by

So what happens when non-binary don’t feel that way? What happens when my trans friend doesn’t like your set of rules? They feel vulnerable, anxious and as if everyone is suddenly going to be staring at them.

We already had people out here calling people “degenerates” and “furries” over this race. Now you’ve got people discriminating based on your set of rules.

[Sylvv-bleeding-hollow]

Everyone is being represented in damn near everything now. Can we shut up and play games now? Why does this have to be a thing every time a game, movie, Disney show, etc. is made?

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Keldar-sargeras

I am as boring as they come. Older, cismale, white, in a nuclear family with a claim to some Native American ancestry. Completely generic.

This here is the problem with identity politics. You’re assuming white straight guys are the generic norm- and that assumption carries weight. Are people who are not like you not generic? Somehow different? Uh-oh we’re tip toeing into “othering” people now. An underlying assumption that puts large groups of people into a very narrow box.

Is my Asian wife not generic? Must be “exotic”. That’s not problematic at all to think, right?

[Nui-ursin]

I did not read this thread but I did scroll to the bottom to get to the juicy stuff.

[Zuldazaur-zuljin]

The topic itself rubs some people the wrong way just talking about it so it is not very surprising, I mean the first 20 responses were almost all that you created a bait thread and it will be a troll fest.

I think it just shows where people stand, they will say it doesnt matter or they dont care but will be first in line to rebuke whatever you have to say.

the point of normalizing for some what is normal for others just flies above their heads because I don’t think people who see things as normal understand why it gets to be ‘normal’ in the first place. the post about doing something right and people not being sure you did anything at all is perfect in this context.

except now some of them are, like i said, victimizing themselves because you made them see something they would rather not see, which circles back to the cringe ‘shoving it in my face’ argument lol

[Zuldazaur-zuljin]

@Thallia-sentinels

Now you’ve got people discriminating based on your set of rules.

the only person who refers to OP’s post as a set of rules is you.

its not

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

A fair point. But I would contend that my specific demographic being “generic” is the problem - that’s why these kinds of discussions need to happen to normalize those that have been historically “othered” by society. The fetishizing of certain demographics is certainly problematic; in these cases, more representation, like that which I’ve detailed in the OP, only helps to normalize. Especially when it’s presented in an unobtrusive way.

[Delphire-wyrmrest-accord]

@Keldar-sargeras

If it was being shoved in people’s faces, we would have heard about it by now. The forums would have exploded as soon as the announcement ended. Instead, the only “controversy” is about furries or whatever.

what are you on about? On the very first day there was a multi-hundred post thread about how androgynous the dragon forms look. And yes, I am 100% annoyed by it mostly because it fails to convey either the raw strength and power of the dragons nor the sleek agility and perpetual motion of serpents that dragons often emulate. Instead, it exists in a halfway point that fails to convey either and makes them look a little wimpy.

Also, the “rainbow abilities” thing being queer coding is utterly ridiculous when it has more to do with the colors of the dragonflights themselves. Wanna bet they have black dragon abilities?

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Keldar-sargeras

A fair point. But I would contend that my specific demographic being “generic” is the problem - that’s why these kinds of discussions need to happen to normalize those that have been historically “othered” by society. The fetishizing of certain demographics is certainly problematic; in these cases, more representation, like that which I’ve detailed in the OP, only helps to normalize. Especially when it’s presented in an unobtrusive way.

You have to be careful when dealing with topics like this though. Sometimes things meant to be helpful can be harmful. There’s not really a need to preface an argument by setting the tone of what is “normal/generic” “run of the mill” etc. It doesn’t really add to your argument and might even hurt it a little. You can be inclusive, while also not using phrases that make one group feel attacked and another as “not the norm”

[Karckus-turalyon]

That still doesn’t make any sense because sex, gender, gender identity, and sexual orientation are all inherently linked to the need for sexual reproduction. Without sexual reproduction, none of those things matter. There’s no way they could be either heterosexual or homosexual. They would all be asexual.

An alchemically created species that doesn’t reproduce sexually isn’t going to have a sexual orientation because they don’t need to have sex to reproduce. Chances are they won’t even have males or females, let alone have genitals or mammary glands, unless you’re implying there’s some weird medieval based nerd sex fantasy at play here.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

The subtext was not picked up on, is the greater point.

As for the chromatic effect, as mentioned, it is absolutely graceful how they’ve used the core dragonflights in this particular way. They could have simply used red effects for red spells, green for green, black for black, and so on. They didn’t. They chose to have a rainbow effect. Again, not all that meaningful for those not looking for this, and gracefully integrated.

Perfection.