I’m mostly okay with benthic going up to 425 over time too, TBF. The main problem is that it rolls sockets very easily (which is itself only a problem because secondary balance is so ludicrously out of whack), and that the curve to do so is exponential instead of linear. It’ll take a long time to get pieces to 425, but half the cost is in the 420-425 step alone. The problems surface before that.
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[The crusade against Raiders has to stop. This thread is the diet coke of crusades. Just one calorie not crusader enough.
Well, my reason is to see the story, and if the content is engaging enough, I’ll do it again,and possibly again. The problem with no on wanting to raid is no tier sets bringing people in (something WQs wouldn’t offer), ugly transmogs, based on armor weight, so everyone looks the same, and bland stories. This newest raid is the most interesting to me, with the old gods coming into play, but I’ve been waiting for this since we burned Teldrassil.
The big issue of Benthic gear at 425 being better than 445 gear is that you can’t trade that 445 gear you may get but won’t use to someone who would.
Benthic gear should only outperform Raid gear if it’s equal iLvl. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Especially with how fast it is to make them outdo raid gear.
I wouldn’t call that the big issue (as pretty much all serious DPS are already running the same three Benthic pieces), but it doesn’t help. At all.
M+ exists, couldn’t care less about raids nor have I participated since SoO. I don’t want to see raids go away but I’d rather M+ gear be on par with mythic raids at a certain key level.
Coming from a raider this xpac: The issue people have with raiding tends to be that raiders always throw the biggest hissy fit I have ever seen when other gameplay methods are allowed to gear you up anywhere near a raider so if any non-raider wants to gear they are pigeonholed into raiding or being months behind anyone else.
Raiders have a REALLY bad habit of trying to min max the crap out of EVERYTHING instead of focusing on what really gives them damage, playing their class well. Unless your top guild racing, the benefits of min-maxing damage upgrades in everyone elses content will be negligible compared to actually learning your class and getting those %'s up. Unfortunately this means whenever there is good gear in PvP, raiders cry that they are “forced” to do PvP. Hell I see people howling still (although less than usual) because the weekly PvP chest gives near mythic ilvl near 1800 or something. I’m just sitting here like…honey…trust me… that one piece that is prolly gonna be a cloak duplicate is not why your DPS is 10k under what it should be…I promise
/rant
But honestly, it’s kind of annoying seeing all the people who wanna mix/max before they can even do decent w/o the gear.
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What % of raiders do you think actually do this? It’s extremely low, and the issue is never about gear being near raid gear - the big complaints have always been when it outperforms raid gear, and even then an extremely low percentage care to talk about it.
Removing any kind of content isn’t a good idea. Raids have been in the game since the classic days. I say let the raiders have their fun doing the raids. I personally haven’t raided in a guild since Cataclysm. But i understand the thrill in getting a group together to do bosses it is a experience! But i don’t like certain attitude that a small portion of that community has…
if you don’t do raiding you are not playing the game. Or if you are not doing arena and getting gladiator you are not playing the game either. There are rotten apples in both communities. Removing content isn’t the answer. Remember these are a small portion of the community saying this stuff. Most raiders don’t care what other players do.
It’s been long happening. LFR, Titanforging, WQ, Pathfinder, etc…
Raiders get TFs.
Raiders do WQs.
Raiders do Pathfinder.
Sure, maybe raiders skip LFR. It’s painful.
Sure, but they still complain about it.
The term “anywhere near” also encompasses gear that outperforms. Again, the point being that 5% upgrade from X content isn’t why your damage is low so acting like you NEED to get the upgrade when you could just as easily surpass the upgrade yourself putting the effort instead into your class mechanics is silly.
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Complaining about content doesn’t mean it absolutely needs to be removed from the game. A lot of times, people are just letting Blizzard know what they DON’T like in hopes that it will influence design decisions in the future.
But look how long people have been complaining about LFR and the LFD tool. And those things are most certainly here to stay.
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I know it encompasses it and I’m saying that complaints about gear that doesn’t surpass raid gear have been at extreme minimums for a long time - since at least MoP, as they have been part of the game since before then. It is only when that gear surpasses raid gear that complaints trend among raiders.
As for the skill comment, better gear still helps less skilled players. Not sure why that matters - if it did, why would casual players also want raid quality upgrades? They could just “get better”
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But they do request it to be removed. Specifically I’ve seen raiders complain about Titanforging and saying it should be removed bc it gives casuals the chance to have better gear than raiders.
Also I’ve seen them request LFR to be removed to try to drum up easier recruitment for “hardcore” raiding.
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It gives everyone the chance to get better gear than raid level gear, not just casuals. Complaints about titanforging have nothing to do with casuals vs raiders.
This forum has so much tribalism its insane lmao. Y’all represent a smaller % of casuals than raiders represent players.
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Yet it hasn’t stopped raiders complaining that it should be removed because casuals get it.
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I wish downvoting was still a thing. You are delusional.
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The reasons for the issues with TFing are a little more complicated than that; and anyone who uses that as an excuse is probably a little dimwitted.
Because honestly, one or two TF’s does not a mythic raider make. I don’t raid anymore, but do midrange mythic+ dungeons. My ilvl is 425. My casual goblin husband, who is content to bop around and do WQs and make piles and piles of gold, is around 405 on his main.
Ergo, anyone who cries about “casuals” getting “mythic level TFs” is being melodramatic. You’re not stepping into M EP with a single TF’d 445 pair of boots.
The real problem is that the TF system forces min/maxers to constantly grind for TF’d pieces. We’re never really “done” with the TF system in place.
EDIT: My husband has informed me that he is 413, tysvm. Point still stands, you’re generally not doing M EP or +10s or whatever at that ilvl.
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