My Magic Seeker says you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And regarding Ghostcrawler, so what? He’s talking about one goal. At no point does he say that was the only goal.
So do you have any actual data to back up your claims then that raid participation was an issue in Wrath? My experience across several servers was that raid participation was quite high among many types of players.
You LFR defenders are all the same. Your entire argument is based on a poor idea from a developer that no longer works at the company.
If LFR was such a slam dunk, then why did the game continue to bleed out subs from Cata into late MoP? The WoW IP is still very popular, but people don’t want to play the game. Age of the game is irrelevant, just in case you try that angle.
WoD proved this by having subs spike back up to 10 million, but players quickly left. I’m not blaming LFR solely for this, but it just goes to show that LFR isn’t the savior of the game for casual players that people make it out to be.
This game had 12 million subs without LFR, just ponder that for a second.
Classic is going to show too, that LFR is not needed in the current game. People have been playing private servers for 10 plus years and the raid participation is quite high there with no LFR.
Care to point at anywhere I made any claim about raid participation in Wrath? Thanks!
And you LFR bashers are all the same. /sob to someone who cares.
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Well you don’t have to have a high raider IO score to do pet battles. If I wanted to raid right now Id have to either schedule certain times to be online in order to raid with a guild OR have a higher raider IO score and attempt to get into a PUG raid. Then I would be required to download certain add-ons, voice chat software, etc.
I don’t care for pet battles but last time I checked your not at the mercy of other people to do pet battles. Also you don’t have to do pet battles to progress in any content. It might give you a slight boost to your rep to unlock a recipe or something but in the end it won’t make much of a difference.
Also I have nothing against raiders and people who enjoy doing it. I will admit LFR has felt pointless this expansion due to other methods of gearing up.
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3 difficulties of raiding definitely never made this game great
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If anything, trying to FORCE people to engage in content results in negative responses and people going out of their way to find alternative means to advance.
It’s just like real life. You force me to attend a party and I’ll go, but don’t expect me to be happy. What you should expect is that I’ll only participate at the bare minimum and that’ll I’ll find a reason to go home as soon as I can.
EDIT: Cleaned up grammar a bit.
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I’m sure there are people who quit just because they didn’t like an armor tint. Too many “difficulties” just to please everyone was a big mistake and it should be corrected.
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I never did one single pet battle and still managed to get flying in the same week with people who did. Pet battles are optional. You don’t like it, you don’t do them.
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Must be a Sunday thread.
Blizzard probably devotes a disproportionate amount of resources catering to raiders. More elaborate and complex raids are fine for the top echelon of raiders but for the typical casual?
The only thing propping up raid development is participation in LFR. It sure ain’t e-sports for raid instances (world first race brings in how many subs again?). Yet you see raiders diss LFR to maintain or boost their cred so they can ‘hang out’ with the 1%. Hilarious.
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that’s exactly the same that happened in vanilla, the only difference was that raids were a lot less accessible and less diverse We don’t want to restrict raiding again to >1% of the player base
The implication was that not enough of the player pool was utilizing the raid content to justify the development costs. Something like only 1% to 2% saw the original Naxx and Sunwell while current (per a Blizzard comment somewhere).
https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll
So what it boils down to is that LFR allows a large enough percentage of paying subscribers utilize Raiding content to ensure further raid development, otherwise we’d only have dungeons and world content simply to save money on development.
Ghostcrawler’s statement is more about envisioning LFR as being a stepping stone into Normal+, while allowing players to see the content, without becoming end game content for players. It was a failure in that regard because most players have no desire to move into more difficult, player gated, scheduled content for a large variety of reasons.
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The claim that people who want to see the story don’t join raiding guilds, or didn’t before LFR, or wouldn’t if it ceased to exist is a claim with zero evidence.
Look man I’m not making up BS numbers or percentages out of my butt to support some claim. I’m just saying there 100% are people who will choose the path of least resistance and do LFR because it’s the easiest way to see the raid, and would do normal if it didn’t exist. It’s impossible that this isn’t the case. That’s how raiding even started in vanilla for so many people. They had no idea what it was, they just wanted to experience it so they joined guilds to see it.
And there is no correlation between what LFR or any piece of content was INTENDED for, and what actually happens in the game once you add the human factor.
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Except we have the only authority on the matter who explicitly told us they put it out for people who don’t have the time or desire or perceived skill to do organized raiding. There’s plenty of evidence that you’re just ignoring because it doesn’t fit the narrative you’re trying to spin.
Can you demonstrate that there are enough people who play this way that it will have a meaningful impact on raid participation? That’s rhetorical. We know you can’t. That’s where this discussion ends. I don’t believe your baseless speculation.
Again, why they decided to put it in has no bearing on the side effects of it being added. So unless you have numbers backing it up that all LFR raiders didn’t raid normal+ prior, your claim has just as much evidence as mine.
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No. It’s been talked about in other threads too. This has nothing to do with wanting to dictate how other people play. It has to do with wanting to reward time and effort appropriately.
If all one does, for example, is log on and do 20 minutes of WQ’s, and then log off, they do not deserve, nor should they get the same rewards (even by luck) as someone who mythic raids. Ever. The definition, the very niche and understanding of an MMO is that time investment = character progression. And that’s a concept Blizzard has largely devalued with their ideas behind things like titanforging and loot boxes players have no control over while simultaneously awarding people for not even participating in group content.
It’s not trying to control what you do, or how you play. It’s wishing Blizzard would award the basic practice of an MMO which they believed in during previous expansions. You’re trying to victimize yourself unnecessarily.
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Liar.
Plus, there are way more threads from raiders ripping on non raiders about the gear they get than the reverse.
Go cry somewhere else, you’ll get no sympathy here.
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That’s one of the oldest excuses that people use to bash on LFR.
“If LFR didn’t exist they’d simply gravitate up to doing Normal!”
Except that’s blatantly False. I know people who can’t commit to week after week, dedicated schedule style of raiding. People of all walks of life who until LFR came about, never saw the raids. Because of a variety of reasons. I have a guildy who would love to get into Normals, but he can’t. He can barely squeeze in dungeons due to family obligations.
You try dedicating to a regular schedule when your job has you On Call. It won’t happen. Watch what would happen to a player who had to bail too often on a raid group due to work calling him in. He’d quickly be permanently benched.
That’s simple human nature.
At least with LFR the pressure for them to stay is reduced and they can try and squeeze in a raid wing here and there.
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I think you are worried about a non issue. Raiding is not going anywhere.
Except I wanst bashing LFR and I wasn’t saying everyone that does it would raid normal if it didn’t exist. I just disagreed with the fact that nobody in LFR would raid higher if it didn’t exist, because there’s plenty of people who used to before it existed but now just do LFR because it’s easier.
Pug then like I do or join a guild that has a revolving door of members that raid some days and not others. I’m in a guild that only raids two days a week for two hours.
I was pointing out its one of the faulty statements used to bash on LFR.
“We don’t need LFR because if LFR didn’t exist they’d simply gravitate upward.”
Sure, some would. But the fact is, Blizzard DID say participation in Raids before LFR was not high enough and that it was abysmally low. That’s an undeniable fact.
Were there downsides? Of course. No system is without its downsides. But the fact is, LFR is here to stay because of the wide variety of players who simply CANNOT engage in Normal+ Raiding for a wide variety of reasons.
I have a friend, nice woman. She’s what you’d call a “Grandma”. Slow, methodical, but she eventually gets the job done. You’d certainly NOT want her on your raid team. You wouldn’t even want her in a pug for that matter.
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