I don’t even play df I ain’t getting gear.
Again just saying that any other solution doesn’t fix the core issue OP mentioned
They could.
They could vastly increase the scaling so the bosses take 50-200 wipes to kill like a raid boss.
Not sure how popular that would be, but it could be done.
2 Likes
Have you read this thread? We are not agreeing it’s a good idea… still.
1 Like
Shoot, time for me to finally get ks-whatever the good one is if this works!
1 Like
Tmer is an archaic mechaniic from legion back when blizzard was hard pushing to make wow an esport.
Your raid doesn’t get locked outta loot if 1 guy dips on attempt 17 Mythic Neltharion.
Its just out of place for general gearing or anything that isn’t strictly a challenge run.
I completly agree that they should simply increase the difficulty and remove the timer.
I think it will make it worse for the average player.
An untimed run still gives loot, vault credit, and maybe score depending on how far over.
Walling on a boss gives nothing.
It also allows for a lot of flexibility and creativity in pathing and pull strategies. Along with cooldown use strategies beyond “save for boss.”
It’s really what makes mythic+ not just 5 man raids.
High scaling and no timer just makes them 5 man raids.
I will keep saying this in every M+ leaver complaint thread, We don’t need a leaver penalty.
In before someone comes to me and makes assumptions that I like leaving groups at the last boss with time to spare to time the key, I don’t leave groups if the run is buttery smooth from start to finish. even if there is some issues along the way, its still possible to salvage and time it.
Only times I would leave a group is if there is some people being a detriment to the group and just simply bad (i.e I had a healer that died to the same avoidable mechanic from Liu Flameheart and since we had no brez because the leader didn’t grab one, it led to a wipe, it happened two times) or just simply put the run is not happening.
I don’t want to be punished for leaving a key because its not happening due to some people being a detriment or whatever might be the cause of leaving, the only people that should be punished here are the ones that leave a group that otherwise has been smooth and still timeable (Like the guy who asked 50k gold from the group or he will leave months ago) should be punished, not everyone who may leave a group if something goes wrong.
1 Like
The solution to this, as usual, is not to punish the leavers but to prevent harm to others. This is what they finally did to make solo shuffle not quite so awful (other reasons it’s awful but those are another topic).
You will always have toxic people. Some players are toxic griefers to the extent that they’re even willing to get their accounts full banned to grief. What needs to change is making it harder for them to hurt others.
Two simple changes to combat M+ toxicity in general, and leavers by association:
- Completed keys no longer downgrade. Keys only downgrade voluntarily or in an abandoned run.
- Fairly big (30% or more) buff when the timer expires. Yes, some groups will do weird things like die 100 times at the start for an easy run…but who cares? If the timer has expired and the tank left, everyone gets a 60% damage reduction. If it’s the healer, everyone regenerates 5% health per second. Yes, this probably trivializes the dungeon, but again the timer is expired so who cares?
Just give out the loot and vault spot when the timer expires and kick everyone out at that point.
I pug keys on 4 different healers, and 3 DPSers, anywhere from 11s to 20s. Very rarely have I seen anyone leave a key that was going smoothly, and when it does happen, its usually a DC. Usually when someone leaves a key, I look at like they’re doing the key holder a favor as they didn’t belong in that key in the first place. Downgrading the key is actually good, because maybe they can actually time the lower key.
Running an 11 or 12 key with a good group and getting the 14 or 15 follow on key doesn’t mean you are automatically equipped or experienced enough to time it. Like last week’s affix (afflicted) I don’t know how many groups I joined that weren’t even remotely staffed to handle the affix. I dropped group before even getting to the dungeon, but you know the key holder had no clue what they were doing. Relying on just the healer to handle the affix just means when the stuff hits the fan, bad things are going to happen. Trust me, things like this are why people leave keys.
They should have a “surrender” button that everyone has to vote to, in order to leave.
1 Like
Also, we should be able to switch talents (not specs). I sometimes end up starting in single target instead of aoe build accidentally 
Perhaps people could just accept that there are additional risks when you join a random group of strangers. The M+ community continues to be the whiniest group of players in this game.
Think you can run outside and do that
1 Like
Just a small minority of them, by no means all.
I mean turning them into 5 man raids would be fair in the sense that the rewards would match the effort considering most BiS comes from M+ but yeah I suppose that would defeat the purpose of them being an “alternative progression”.
But I still think it could be tuned in a way that its not just a boss wall, maybe buff the trash and make a wipe reset trash entierly or something. I don’t think the only possible way to do it is a timer.
Don’t misconstrue my words.
It’s not failing if you’ve downed a boss, you never completed the dungeon but YOU did get something.
What I’d like to see is a proper way to show that time given gives you something rather than nothing at all. You can call that failing a dungeon if you like, which technically it is, but if you get all the way through a dungeon but just can’t get the last boss and then walk away with nothing but completely wasted time, I’d gladly take a participation ribbon at that point (in this case some points) rather than nothing at all, currently you don’t even get a vault choice unless you complete the dungeon.
Even a token system for killing a mob to collect over time would be better. There is just not adequate representation on time respect when it comes to this stuff.
I’ve had people brick my key on one death because they didn’t communicate their intention and just assumed everyone knows.
That seemed to be the original intent with mega dungeons, and why Kara has been a problem in M+ for every iteration.
This. Non-queued content doesn’t have a queue because there should be no expectation to complete that content to the end.