"The class order halls overwhelmingly favored Alliance"

yeah, i checked as well, it is a night elf building, but the decoration isn’t night elf themed at all, and the adjacent buildings aren’t either, so i think it is a fair mix.

That’s fair.

I’d just say that there’s not much there that says Highmountain despite what Zerde says. Like they couldn’t even use tauren style buildings for the shacks off to the side as opposed to the more human looking ones that are there.

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The story for blood elf demon hunters is exactly the same as for night elves. They are elves imitating Illidan.

Not to mention the sin’dorei are descendants of the kal’dorei, it’d basically be like the monkiest pandaren teaching his new short pandaren followers his ancient art. I don’t think many would agree that it is a thematic clash.

The art of being a Demon Hunter was invented by a Kaldorei and for Kaldorei. There were Kaldorei Demon Hunters in Warcraft 3, trained short. No Blood Elves. The only lore for Blood Elf Demon Hunters is that they were taken by Illidan from Kaelthas’ followers.

They’re a completely separate culture and people.

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This is because SI:7 sucks and the Shattered hand actually understands that spywork should not be loud and obvious.

Dreadlords didn’t even know who to abduct and replace, they never stood a chance.

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Meh, you win some, you lose some. At least our Spymaster is now the gay icon(well he is kinda one of the few gay characters) of Warcraft. Heck, he got a short story and a book where he is one of the main cast. That is more then can be said of most Warcraft character.

There were no night elf demon hunters in wc3 except Illidan. Who, as you may know, didn’t have much chance to cultivate culture for 10000 years.

To be fair, I’m not sure what night elf themed hunter decor would even look like.

I imagine Kaldorei huntresses are particularly fond of gathering trophies. I always imagine them as the…less civilized ones of the whole race. Not sure why. Just always pictured them as the ones not really that picky about who gets an arrow to the chest :dracthyr_nod:

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I know maiev probably had for years a spot for illidan’s head in her home room.

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Sure, but how would those trophies be different from what’s in the lodge (pelts, antlers, etc.) now?

Class order hall discussion…? Is it 2018 again? Oh, thank goodness!

LET ME GO BACK TO THE BEFORE-TIMES.

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They really wouldn’t be

But than again, it being kaldorei culture and how they revere nature. I also don’t see them collecting your typical trophies. Mementos of companions that passed away I can see though. Or taking something from a sick animal they had to put down to memorialize it’s sacrifice

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I think that’s the main Alliance complaint with all these ‘neutral content is Alliance biased’ comments: sure, they look more like Alliance aesthetics, but does it actually teach us anything about the Alliance group they supposedly belong to? Or is it just boring filler that makes the Horde feel excluded while the Alliance feel like they gained nothing for it?

Are night elf hunters different at all from generic ‘trophy hunters’? If not, they got that representation… and so did every single hunter race that collects those hunting trophies. Do we even know who those groups are and aren’t, who fits as ‘trophy collectors’ and who doesn’t? The Legion hall certainly didn’t tell us. They picked the narrowest shared path and stuck everyone on it.

That’s how I’d see night elf hunters, and how I think a lot of players would think if their own faction of hunters was represented only as ‘trophy collectors’. But that nuance would take too much time and developer effort, so Blizz just gave us hunting trophies.

That’s why I don’t like these faction grievance measuring contests - one side suffering doesn’t mean the other side necessarily gains, and there’s no definite metric to use.

I did love the focus that class lore got in Legion, but I’d be happier with Vanilla-style class quests where they can be themed around each race/faction’s class organization rather than lumping them together. I can see the limitations the game design added, by requiring each class to have one hub in Legion zones (for classes who couldn’t teleport in lore), but it did rob a lot of groups. I’d rather try to champion what we should see in the future than argue with other players on who Blizzard gave the most toys to and whether those toys were good ones or actually full of toxic chemicals and worse than getting nothing.

I’d have loved if the hunter hall was instead a Highmountain hunting lodge, that various hunters from the playable factions had gathered in to coordinate hunts of major Legion foes. Have night elf Sentinels aid tracking in the forest of Val’sharah, tauren plainsrunners aid in the plains of Highmountain/Stormheim, blood elf Farstriders in the sunnier forests and ancient Highborne ruins in Azsuna, troll hunters in the haunted swamps of Helya’s Stormheim territories, etc.

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Just watch out when July 30 rolls around. :frowning:

We back in 2018?

Arhem, let me get in character.

"How could blizz burn my treeeeeeee, i’m so sad, and what is this, horde gets cool trolls and we gain fat humans, is this a jooooooke?
"

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On the actual topic at hand, it’s unfortunate but it makes sense because most of the Horde-centric groups aside from the Earthen Ring are very pro-Horde and would not welcome the Alliance. Can you imagine if the Sunreavers, separate of Dalaran, ran the de facto mage order hall?

What I think could’ve been done:

  • Hunter: It’s mostly fine as is, but lean more heavily into the tauren aspect. There’s a ton of tauren lore that can be derived from this, given that they literally refer to one’s path through life as “The Great Hunt”. Highmountain because of hunting traditions, and nelves as the root to ancient history/explanation for why they’re this “best of the best” group.
  • Monk: Honestly, I would’ve liked to see more of other races bringing their own traditions to the Pandaren rather than it just being “Pandaren: The Class”. I say this as someone who loves pandaren and pandaren lore, but I hate how the entire class is tied to one race. It’d be like if every single paladin offshoot was rooted in what human paladins do. :wink: i.e. Spirit Champions/Blademasters of the Horde, Monastic orders of the Alliance, Jed’hin from the draenei, etc. They all have something to offer.
  • Warrior: This one is tough. No one liked Odyn’s power-tripping. Maybe use him and his vrykul as background piece to some sort of hall of warriors that does not care of race or creed, but skill in battle. The problem with this, generally speaking, is that most prominent warriors in WoW are born out of factional conflict. It’d be hard to write a new group that’s war-centric without it being pro-Horde or pro-Alliance-- The most war-like people are orcs so they’re a shoe-in, but they’re known for being war-like because of their propensity to slaughtering anything not wearing red. There aren’t any orc clans that sat on the sidelines and just loved to fight. Maybe founded by mortal vrykul?
  • Priest: Zandalari Trolls. Okay, I’m a little biased, and it was too early for BFA, but wouldn’t that have been a nice tie-in for BFA, presenting the old Zandalari who aren’t pro-Zul, and showing what the Zandas are up to given that this is a globe-spanning threat? They just sat on their thumbs the whole time while all the troll empires were at risk? They literally founded their empire on their priesthood and called their rulers God-Kings.

On that note, the fact that literally none of the artifacts are trollish in nature despire trolls being one of the most ancient peoples of Azeroth is a travesty. One is even explicitly anti-troll.

I definitely agree that it’s 2 issues. Danuser era team not wanting to write nonhumans/elves, and overuse of established figures and groups so they don’t have to build anyone up or establish them.

I think blizzard giving up that crutch of just going back to the same groups time after time could fix a lot of issues. Build up other groups, let us know what their deal is in more detailed terms than “They exist”.

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Speaking as someone who felt alienated from the mage hall, I would have been okay with it being in Dalaran if they’d emphasized the contributions of both the humans and the High/Blood Elves. But they expected me to be excited about working with a hero of the Troll Wars and getting inducted into the super-secret human mage police.

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Just taking a moment to ponder weapon origins.

Death Knight: Blades of the Fallen Prince (Scourge), Apocalypse (Legion), Maw of the Damned (Legion)
Demon Hunter: Aldrachi Warblades (Aldrachi), Twinblades of the Deceiver (Illidari/Legion)
Druid: Scythe of Elune (Night Elf/Wild God), Fangs of Ashamane (Night Elf/Wild God), Claws of Ursoc (Titanic/Wild God), G’hanir the Mother Tree (Wild God)
Hunter: Titanstrike (Titanic), Thas’dorah (High Elf), Talonclaw (Tauren)
Mage: Aluneth (Human/Arcane entity), Ebonchill (Origin unclear, left to Alodi by human/high elf parents), Felo’melorn (High/Blood Elf)
Monk: Sheilun (Pandaren), Fu Zan (Titanic/Wild God), Fists of the Heavens (Elemental)
Paladin: The Silver Hand (Titanic), Truthguard (Vrykul/Titanic), Ashbringer (Dwarven)
Priest: Light’s Wrath (Human), T’uure (Naaru/Draenei), Xal’atath (Old Gods/Void)
Rogue: The Kingslayers (Legion), Fangs of the Devourer (Legion), Dreadblades (Demonic/likely Legion)
Shaman: The Doomhammer (Orc/Elemental), Fist of Ra-den (Titanic), Sharas’dal (Highborne/Naga)
Warlock: Scythe of the Harvester (Legion), Skull of the Man’ari (Eredar/Legion), Scepter of Sargeras (Legion)
Warrior: Scale of the Earth-Warder (Vrykul/Draconic), Warswords of the Valarjar (Vrykul/Titanic), Strom’kar (Vrykul/Ancient human).

Yep. Literally not a single troll artifact, who spanned the entire globe and had powers that can’t be replicated in this era. Only 1 for tauren, another of the most ancient of Azeroth’s peoples.

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