"The class order halls overwhelmingly favored Alliance"

And Alonsus Faol is standing in the Ruins of Lordaeron.

Also, “High Shaman” is a Neutral title.

And Faol is not pvp marked. The wiki agrees.

Neither was Malfurion in Darnassus, so much so that it was a popular meme that Malfurion watched his wife fight without helping her.

So you Horde players can stop acting like Malfurion before BfA was an Alliance character.

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Despite ereviens ramblings, whats being looked at here is the faction loyalty of the characters involved, a character for example being an undead or a elf does not necessarily make one horde or alliance.

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Kil’jaeden orcstrated the corruption of the Orc race yet not a single Orc was there when he got blown to bits. Legion was overall bad for the Horde identity since it seemed we didn’t even exist. It is just a fact that Blizzard tends to use alliance aligned races more often when telling a story to save the world from evil.

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That was more of a highmountain aesthetic tbf.

But I generally agree, the class fantasy of legion more often alliance themed than horde themed.

Very few were truly neutral, Monk, Demon hunter (yes, It is illidan themed and illidan is technically a night elf, but he never was part of the alliance and was an outcast for night elves, so i consider him a theme outside of a theme), warrior (which sucked, it was basically a vrykul hall, not a warrior one, your only playable race follower is the 7.2 one), I think hunter was fairly neutral as well.

Paladin was very silverhand focused.

I havent played the others.

I liked warlock and shaman the most. Basically the ones were it was actually Mixed.

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Cool.

Except, if characters is all that matters, then the Silver Hand is Horde-leaning, since the main character and main representative is Liadrin. :slight_smile:

Kil’jaeden did not orchestrate the corruption of the orcs; Gul’dan did. Gul’dan is already dead by the time WoW begins.

I can’t believe i’m saying this, but, Erevien is right, in this instance, Kil’jaeden was the mastermind behind the original gul’dan, he knew attacking the draenei directly would just make them fly away again, so he used the orcs to attack from within and also give them a false sense of security, Gul’dan, Mannoroth, were all orchestrated by Kil’jaeden.

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Again, Gul’dan did 99.99999999999999999999% of the work in corrupting the Orcs. Kil’jaeden just tricked Ner’zhul once at Oshu’gun (after being tipped off by Gul’dan) and Mannoroth showed up at the very end to give his blood to Gul’dan who then gave it to the orcs.

Gul’dan still did 99.99999999999999999999999% of the work in corrupting the orcs.

It would require looking not just at the chracters but the themes of the story arc. I would actually say the Earthen ring is horde cause despite having an alliance figure head its story veers closer to horde spiritual themes

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Yeah, and I acknowledged that the Silver Hand is Alliance-leaning.

But if we look at the themes, then clearly the Earthen Ring is Horde-leaning, as well as the Uncrowned, since their order hall is basically the Undercity. :slight_smile:

Well yea i agree about the earthen ring, the uncrowned on the other hand is just you making stuff up cause underground layer is not the sole domain of the forsaken and the uncrowned do not have anyone in their main cast who was a member of the forsaken at that time.

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The uncrowned is the rogue one right?

It was a new order, but it features more alliance characters at the start no?

Like, i recall seeing Tess Greymane, Valeera, the defias girl, I heard shaw gets on it at one point, while the horde side has basically Garona?

I’d rank it like this

Cenarion Circle

Is definitly alliance themed, given nothing has been done to establish Horde druidism as any different and most horde druids have learned from cenarius

Conclave

The Conclave is also alliance themed as it touches more on alliance spirtuality and characters, given its dominance of entirely alliance and neutral characters, with only two horde characters.

Council of the Black harvest

This one is firmly neutral as its themes aren’t really owed to one faction or the other and its entire cast is neutral

Earthen Ring

The Earthen ring is definitly firmly horde despite nobunodo taking leadership, as its story follows horde spirituality and horde characters.

Illidari

The Illidari are also neutral as they are made up of people who are either banished from or chose to leave their faction.

Ebon Blade

Ebon blade is firmer neutral although. Definitly closer to the alliance then horde due to being led by bolvar and being more antagonistic to the horde.

Knights of the silver Hand

Definitly alliance themed, as it deals with alliance spirituality and most of its cast are alliance or neutral

Order of the broken temple

Obviously neutral cause panda’s

Uncrowned

The Uncrowned is actually neutral as most of its main cast is neutral save for garona and tess

Tirisgarde

The tirisgarde is definitly more alliance themed as its rooted in a tradition that is tied to alliance history and while dalaran is neutral at the time you really cant divorce it from that history.

Unseen Path

This one i would actually agree this is horde although barely, as it does feature night elves prominently but also focuses on highmountain tauren and even has a little Dark ranger in there.

Valarjar

Its titan theming roots in closer to the alliance then it does to the horde who don’t really have any ties to titan stories.

So that’s like 5 alliance leaning halls to the 2 definitly horde themed ones. With the vast majority being neutral which kinda does line up with the Number of NPCs alligned

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It was a High Mountain Tauren’s lodge, Huln’s lodge specifically. No Night Elf would build a lodge by killing trees. Jarod Shadowsong presumably spent his post WOTA years there until Huln died.

Everyone here arguing over who got more lore characters, meanwhile we poor warriors got Saurfang and whatshisface basically just being there for the introduction to the class hall and pulling a Baine otherwise.

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True, but this all stems from the game’s early sins.

Namely, Blizzard ripped the Alliance’s identity away from it, made it neutral, and then forced the Horde to play with that, all so that they didn’t have to develop Horde organizations, and then write two separate experiences.

Since Vanilla, the Cenarion Circle has been neutral. It was always heavily Night Elf themed, but the Cenarion Circle didn’t do anything directly for the Alliance. That was kind of a major plot point in Cataclysm, where the Druids of the Flame were those victimized by the Horde, and blamed the Cenarion Circle for doing nothing to defend them.

Since Vanilla, the Light/Silver Hand has been neutral under the Argent Dawn, and later, the Argent Crusade. After Bolvar died, the Alliance didn’t even have any named paladins of note until Blizzard remembered Muraad existed and then promptly killed him off anyways. Legion reorganized the Argents into the Knights of the Silver Hand, but by then Paladins by and large had become so absent from the Alliance narrative that it was all flavor and no substance.

Dalaran went neutral in Wrath. Once again, something ripped from the Alliance because Blizzard couldn’t be bothered to develop a Horde counterpart. Dalaran flip-flopped around a bit in MoP, but come Legion it opened its doors to the Horde again.

I can absolutely appreciate that the Order Halls overwhelmingly favored the Alliance in terms of aesthetics or history, but by then none of the organizations involved had even been a part of the Alliance for the game’s lifetime.

It’s like saying the Death Knight Order Hall is obviously and unquestionably Horde content because it’s got a lot of undead/scourge/Forsaken-friendly themes. The Ebon Blade was never a part of the Forsaken, or even the Horde, regardless of themes, and I think a lot of Horde players would feel that’s an unfair or even a ludicrous assertion to make to begin with.

Which is how I think a lot of Alliance players feel when this topic comes up.

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Warriors got done dirty.

And to complete the insult, warrior order hall is serving the biggest douche that is on “our side” and getting the lamest artifact weapons.

Yeah those may be fair points but the lore semantics of Dalaran or the zone the lodge is in doesn’t take away from their feel and nature.

The Kirin Tor are a human centric mixed organisation and Dalaran is one of the original human kingdoms.

I’m not saying I have better ideas for where those class halls could’ve been that would be more faction agnostic, but the feelings surrounding these order halls aren’t alleviated by some doodads or lore factoid.

The Sun and hex priests in the Netherlight Temple feel like an afterthought.