https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Thoradin_IX
Deffo human name.
Human name, elf culture and lineage
I am just going to point out I dont think real world definition of âempire vs kingdomsâ is any more clear cut.
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I mean, empire means the leader is an emperor. Kingdom means its a monarchy. Usually an empire does one thing a kingdom doesnât, which is conquor other lands and rule them from afar. The Mogu did that. The zandalari did that. And the arathi, clearly and absolutely, have done that in Khaz Algar. They count as an empireâŚso long as there is a ruler somewhere else. If Stromgarde was also a vassal state, the the highlands part of that, thatâs more evidence they have every right to be called an empire.
But thatâs only if they exist.
According to what gets revealed in hallowfall, we know that where they came from, they a) encountered high elves and b) went past the maelstrom to get to Khaz Algar.
Both of those things point to the empire being on an island to the west of Lordaeron, and north of the maelstrom.
They are mixed and both at the same time and are a third thing. Itâs also very important to note, they are partly titan creature (human) and partly pre-titan creature (elf). This is an interesting admixture.
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Thereâs still the fact that the Arathi are very open-minded. You can be a druid or a warlock or a Death Knight and no-one makes a stink about that.
The closest Iâve heard is General Steelstrike being worried about Alleria, but sheâs willing to give her a chance.
I think Blizzard themselves donât know what to do with the Arathi Empire; make them all zealots and perpetuate that cliche or make them generally benevolent which wonât sit well with certain people. They could make them a mix of both, but Iâll believe they can pull that off well when I see it.
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There is the one npc at the beginning of the zone that has extra dialogue for death knights and undead. Even then though, itâs more distrust than anything. Faerin also recalls that the empire might not be as happy about the certain company we keep. In all fairness, they have good reason to be suspicious of darker magics.
Excluding that, you are absolutely right. They are more open-minded than I would have expected given current trends. I would argue that being stuck down in a nerubian hole for 15 years cannot entirely account for why they are that tolerant.
I argee with you on the Blizzard part. I have a feeling it is another example of different writers having different visions and writing different questlines.
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Doesnât Faerin say at some point their situation likely made them more tolerant than the empire itself would be if they ever went back?
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Nah, I get why they are more tolerant. Unlike most people here, the light actually leads to people to experience more compassion and trusting. You can be suspicious as a light wielder but you also stay your hand and wait and figure out if things are bad enough to destroy or toâŚhelp. That is why the scarlet crusade is such an outlier because they act more like void wielders but with the light, and that is mostly because of the dreadlord warping their minds.
So the Arathi not being happy with dark magic but not outright rejecting it is inline with a lot of the writing when it comes to the light. Look at Alleria, when she went void for the first time, they didnât outright destroy her. They imprisoned her out of suspicion but let her go when she wasâŚvetted out.
This isnât 40k with the imperium of man. The light isnât the warp. The warp is more like fel and arcane magic. The light is what the warp is but without the negative aspects.
Not saying you canât go bad with the light, weâve seen that in the total of three times in the game. The Crusade, with the dreadlord whispering in the zealots ears. The AU Draenor, whcih was kinda bad writing all around to just give AU orcs to the horde, and the Priority of the Sacared Flame that took the flame and turned it against their own beliefâs out of desperation.
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I totally agree. I meant I was expecting from the perspective of Blizzardâs current narrative. The current trend of deconstructing everything. Titans, Light, Etc
I think it is perfectly reasonable to be suspicious given the history of the Scourge, Legion, and Old Gods.
If I recall it was just the comment about them not liking our company, not why. Iâd have to check again
Yeah, that is more like âthere is more to what we knowâ then going âthey are villainsâ though. The Light is mostly just good with outliers, so I do not look too deeply into that and that is what makes the outliers vastly more interesting. Mostly because that isnât supposed to happen but it does somehow, anaomlies in the light is more interesting than just Zealots for a crusade. That is boring.
The Titan ones, that one is so interesting now that I am playing an Earthen paladin. It is like the Titans are so part of their own system that they created Earthen, forges, and everything on Azeroth to be part of said system, like a computer, that the programming going out of wack activates their firewalls and anti-virus software (aka golems and titankeepers) to keep their programs (earthen and vyrkrul) from getting corrupted. The curse of flesh being the corruption and when that happens to their programming, the firewall happens.
Funny thing is that the Titans created this system on Azeroth so long ago it is like a computer still running when the creators left said computer on with their program that got infected by a virus and started to become a self learning program and the anti-virus software is fighting against the new AI. The computer is just still there, running, with said programs running and the developer went off to Europe to eat sasauges and drink beer or wine or whatever developers do when they just f off.
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I second that. I think it makes organizations like the Crusade more unique. It highlights how their existence and beliefs are warped and twisted. They are supposed to be shocking and anomalous as to why and how they exist. It loses its luster if it is another flavor of the light.
The analogy of ai and software works well with the Titans, especially given their cosmic researcher vibe. In old lore, they seemed to be okay with the variance brought on by some of their experiments. Chronicles explicitly mentioned them being benevolent and approaching civilizations with temperance.
That is why the control freak titans are a hard sell. They were depicted as the complete opposite. They might be analytical and pragmatic, but they werenât so uncompromising and lacking compassion.
It would be nice twist when they show up again, that the modern âabsolute orderâ theme is framed as a bug in Azerothâs operating system and not working as intended.
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So just ignoring that time that the Naaru tried to force Illidan to become a creature of light, fully against his will? Or all the times the Naaru have lied, been merciless, or done downright dispicable things? Or the fact thereâs a whole Naaru in Revendreth and not even ONE in Bastion or Ardenweld?
The Light can be JUST AS EVIL as the void. Period. Always.
You donât think Algalon wasnât a good enough indication that the Titans are control freaks? Or the Halls of Stone, Halls of Lightning, and the rest of the Ulduar complex? Itâs not a hard sell if theyâve been up to this since WRATH. Câmon now. The Titans have zero desire to parley. They view us as corrupt and always have.
We really only have ONE example of a Naaru doing outright dodgy things with Xeâra. Iâd love for you to post any examples of the Naaru doing despicable things.
Because every Naaru we meet besides Xeâra have been helpful and guiding us
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Lying to us. Intentionally. Muâru wasnât subdued. Muru let that happen, KNOWING what would happen, simply to trick the blood elves into becoming loyal to the light. Go reread the story about how the Blood Elves come to apologize to the Naaru and are reassuredâŚthat it was all intentional. Including the release of the void lord.
Xeâra told us a full song and dance about prophacies concerning Illidan, and then, when he wouldnât submit, tried to force the light on him AND didnât even succeed. Some prophesy.
The Naaru in the ship at Oshuâgun, who is dying, is stealing the souls of Orcs to feed itself. Not to stay alive and maintain the light, but to prepare for its change into a void lord.
The Naaru view light and void as we view life and death, but they absolutely donât like to talk about how when they die they start ending their own friends and allies. Because they donât CARE. Theyâre not compassionate. Theyâre not kind. Theyâre creatures who do not view us as anything but pawns.
And as a note, Iâm okay with them being dodgy and untrustworthy. Too many people view âthe lightâ as being a christian-equivalent âunflawed goodnessâ When itâs not. Itâs tyannical, demanding, and cruel in equal portion to protective, healing and strong.
We see in Warcraft again and again, that magic is what you make of it, every single type can be evil or good depending on the user, their motive and their morals.
Muâru didnât intentionally lie to anyone. Lady Liadrin was shocked when she learns in Shattrath that Muâru allowed the blood knights to capture him and channel his essence because he knew the blood elves were destined to be saved.
Xeâra was written to be disliked. We were never meant to like her or trust her from the beginning.
And Kâure wasnât stealing souls to become a void lord. She was dying and the orc souls were drawn to the spiritual energies of the Naaru. Which in turn allowed the orcs to commune with their ancestors. Thatâs why Oshuâgun became a holy mountain to the orcs.
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Xera was an outlier and the one in revendreath was because of a war between the dreadlords and the light. You kinda missed that. Itâs a pow.
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Aye, someone thinking a naaâru doing good things without saying anything is the same as lying. Some people are really stretching here. Xera was an outlier. Her own army decided she was in the wrong.
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After she died. of course. No one told her no. They waited until Illidan ended her. Then it was âoh, well, she wasnât rightâ
And if heâd been converted? You think theyâd have disagreed then? No.
Stop trying to make soulless creatures with ZERO care towards mortals be something they arenât. Lying by ommission is still lying. Knowing that Muâru was a willing sacrifice, even though this behaviour would END LIVES FOR CERTAIN is not GOOD behaviour. Itâs morally bereft. Itâs disgusting.
And Iâm FINE with that. Itâs not a reach. Itâs horrific. Who and what the Naaru are is not a feel good cuddly teddy bear. Theyâre creatures of void and light, who hide their nature until they start ending lives. And they find that behaviour to be acceptable, reasonable, and even expected.
They should be viewed as upsetting. Because they arenât like mortals. They have no particular level of empathy. Just a desire to destroy that which opposes the light.