The Arathi Tonal Disconnect

I think I already explained that. Because they’re distinctly different things.

No, I don’t think it does. You seem to want to believe that. But given that faith or willpower is key, it actually implies to me it requires no acknowledgement, only faith or willpower. Again, you are trying to put forward lore that invalidates one side instead of incorporating them together.

Instead of trying to ways for it to just be faith and willpower, you are trying to make it not that. They both exist because you can draw power from something without it agreeing to give that power.

In a world of magic, faith requires acknowledgment, willpower does not. They are separate constructs.

Faith is to put trust in something or someone beyond oneself. If the light is a conscious entity and it requires faith to use, then the light is acknowledging your faith. You are asking it for help.

Willpower is about control. If willpower is required to wield the light, then the actual method of power is manifestation. You are shaping your reality here. Faith is actually a misunderstanding then. What you thought was from “faith” was really your doing all along. This could work in Wow lore given the Light is a tool of creation.

My point is even just saying faith and willpower are not clear. There has to be a larger picture.

No it doesn’t work like that, cause the thing you have faith in doesn’t even have to be real, for it to work, thats how it works in wow

Then it isn’t really about faith. You are the source of manifestation. Faith is merely a misunderstanding of what is happening.

FFXIV would like to have a word with you…

Yea, that’s whats everyone is trying to tell you, its not the light you need to have faith in for it to work, you just have to believe in something

Faith does not require acknowledgement. That is your assumption that does not apply.

It is faith that you can channel and use the Light.

Seems abundantly clear to me.

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A good word.

I totally get that. I’m saying that the argument that it was solely based on faith is contradictory with the notion that the light is a sentient and compassionate entity.
Even the idea of saying it is faith or willpower is contradictory because they both imply different things.

That was my point about distinguishing faith from willpower. Because when you look at both they lead to two different directions.

In the ffxiv world one only needs faith and magic to create “gods”. It does not matter if they are real or not, dead or alive, a person, a thing. If one has faith and magic in appropriate quantities it will be willed into existence.

Faith is powerful, and like in the real world it does not bend to reason or common sense. Faith is all someone needs to draw strength from, and I don’t think it’s any different in WoW.

If you believe smiting the undead, regardless of sentience is for the greater good, than the light will give you power, If you believe in rezan, or any god really, then the light will give you power and ofcourse if you believe the light chose you to wield it, then its gunna give you power, it probably didn’t actually choose you, but believing it did reinforces the self belief

the light being sentient carries its on set of problems, such as making the light the moral arbiter of goodness is terrible worldbuilding, it underminds stuff like anduin’s story as if his power came from a literal being choosing him, it would have never faded

That is the distinction I’m making. It is belief in the external vs the internal.

When a Paladin calls on the Light for help, it doesn’t happen because the Light is answering, but because he believes the Light will answer. And that personal faith is closer to willpower. You manifest your reality, in this case without even knowing.

However, it is strange in Wow for a few reasons. We didn’t create the Light. The Light is sentient. The Light is benevolent.

If the light is self-aware, then how can its power be used without it knowing? There has to be some degree of agency because the Light is a living power. How could it be disconnected from those that use it?

This could only make sense if it was like FFXIV where the light was a product of our creation or the light has no human qualities and is just an energy source.

You are seeing my point then. Chronicles stated the Light is living.
The whole purpose of these points was to reconcile belief in the light with the fact that it has its own will.

There are two many questions left unanswered. One being if the Light is benevolent why does it allow bad people to use it? Saying it is based on willpower is not enough of an explanation because we have already ascribed personality to the Light.

That’s the confusion.

I mean if we go by what you want, meaning that only good people can use the light, then that means that any non-light user is then by the very laws of the universe evil

The Light being good would have no bearing on the morality of other magic users. The light never states that it has to be the only magic used. Those are two different issues.

The Light resonates with benevolence and compassion is all. That doesn’t mean a druid or mage lacks compassion.

If the light gives power to the good, then by definition anyone withought it is not good, see how this is bad, how quickly this falls into persercution

It doesnt at all. Don’t forget the Light helped create the whole universe. Arcane and Life are under its umbrella. The Light isnt the only path to being good. I never said all good people use the Light, just that the Light is good and those that choose to wield it traditionally are good.

It only gets more complicated with magic like fel, shadow, or necromancy. I do think a good person can use evil magic-there is just more of a struggle and consequences.

So too did the void, trying to apply morality to forces of nature isn’t good worldbuilding

It depends how you write it. It can be very strong world-building, especially in a setting like Wow.

The reasoning for why a good person can use evil magic is what defines the fantasy of some classes. It provides meaning, depth, and nuance to things.

The void may be willing to aid a Shadow priest hoping said priest eventually succumbs to its power. The class fantasy being the struggle to retain one’s humanity while bargaining with darker forces.

In some cases the explanation is easier than the scarlets, because evil powers don’t have the same moral qualms that a good magic would have.

So basically, “yea there can be some interesting people using the bad magic, but all good magic people have to be good” sounds boring as hell if only some people get to be targeted with the villain bat

Again that’s not what I said. Those that use the Light for evil eventually turn from it would be my point. So you can have “evil” light users for a period. I said a fall from grace takes time.

In fact, that’s what makes the Scarlets so heinous. They can be contrasted to something good.

If the Light isn’t good, then the Scarlets lose what makes them interesting.

Alternatively, what would be the point of playing a Warlock if Fel is just as moral as Arcane or Light? Good and bad helps define class fantasy, especially for “rule-breakers”.