I dont think you played the same WCIII I did. Grom did some pretty effed up stuff, but for the most part, it was the alliance and arthas that did evil things.
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He drank Demon Blood after provoking a war with a neutral party. Arthas was evil, sure. But the Alliance didn’t do anything evil in Warcraft 3.
Ironic that the most iconic Alliance story ever written involved a good character walking down the path of villainy and self-destruction.
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Garithos: /Waves
Arthas: (at Stratholme) /waves, /winks
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What exactly did Garithos do? He was a PoS, but what did he do that is actually evil.
How exactly is Stratholm evil as well? Those people were already dead.
I don’t normally like wading into threads like these, but I feel the need to say my piece. I really, sincerely try to be sympathetic to Horde players. I do understand that for many of them the story has been frustrating and unsatisfying. I understand that the villain bat sucks, I understand that Sylvanas’ character is being ruined, and I understand that another rebellion storyline would be unwelcome. I agree that the Horde narrative is mired in countless problems, and I try not to begrudge Horde players their right to vent and complain about these problems.
However, lately, I think some Horde players here on the Story Forums have too often crossed the line beyond just complaining about their own narrative. This thread, and others, are filled with all too many Horde players engaging in what I think are unfair assumptions about the Alliance narrative, and the thoughts and experiences of Alliance players. As an example:
This statement is a little extreme, but it is a sentiment I have heard before. Some Horde players seem to think the Alliance narrative is amazing, “going in our favor” so to speak. That we are just entitled brats for having the audacity to complain about our narrative. Well, I’ve held my tongue for hundreds of Horde complaint posts, and I’m going to release some complaints of my own.
The Horde destroyed my starting zone. They butchered my playable race, and displaced them from their ancient homes. The Horde inflicted incalculable pain and suffering upon the Night Elf people, to the point that it has impacted me in a very painful way. It is hard to describe just how angry at the Horde I was after the War of Thorns, how much I lusted for revenge, and how much the Horde needed to pay for what it had done. These feelings were not assuaged by the less than satisfying Battle of Lordaeron, and were indeed exacerbated by the travesty of Undead Sira and Delaryn.
And now I’m supposed to feel bad for Horde players that Rastakhan got killed? That some ships were blown up? That they didn’t get to kill one of the most enduring, iconic, and popular characters in the entire Alliance? I’m sorry, but that is a pretty big ask. The Alliance had revenge coming its way. Quite frankly, we deserve it. I’m sorry if you don’t agree, and I’m sorry if our revenge had to come at the expense of a popular character, but we do deserve it. Quite frankly, after the devastation of Teldrassil, I do not blame any Alliance player for wanting even more revenge. We didn’t butcher countless Horde civilians, we didn’t wipe an entire zone off the map. Whats more, Sylvanas, the person actually responsible for Teldrassil, is still in power-she has not faced any measure of justice for her crimes. So forgive me if I’m not exactly moved to tears by Horde complaints about the Battle of Dazar’alor.
Look I get it. I know that the WoT was not exactly a fun ride for Horde players. And I understand that it can be exasperating having to put up with all of these Alliance complaints, especially from some of the less diplomatic posters, and especially in the aftermath of an Alliance “fist bump moment” like BoD. However, just as I imagine Horde players wish Alliance players would treat them with respect, and take their complaints seriously, Alliance players want the same thing. I do not intend to be dismissive towards Horde players, or their complaints about the narrative. I think we can come together and recognize that this story has not done anyone any favors, rather than devolving into partisan sniping.
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LMAOOOOOOOO
Dam bro ah right. Guess you should stop complaining as well then.
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Maybe this is just a “grass is greener” biased outlook on my part, but I’m kinda jealous that you’re apparently still connected to the story after all this. I don’t know how you’re still able to maintain your suspension of disbelief enough that you can feel anger at the horde, instead of just at Blizzard’s writers.
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Every allaince zone? No, just no you really need to go play cata content. Then you would know that allaince was invading just about every horde zone and is still there to this day.
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Because from the perspective of Alliance players. Night Elf players especially, everything that the Horde has done in BfA does not seem beyond the realm of possibility. The Horde has been brutalizing us for years.
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Meh, the problem is not Alliance or Horde storylines, the problem is THE storyline. This is the difference between plot-driven stories and character-driven stories. Plot driven stories simply make things happen (or make people do things without any real reason) and have your characters simply react to them. Character driven stories actually flesh out the narrative and allow some insight into WHY things happen.
I feel like Blizz is putting more effort into the expac plot/storyline, albeit with mixed results. However this whole faction war has not been super great and in my opinion a bit of a missed opportunity, especially if it is going to be wrapped up by facing off against N’Zoth. Won’t be able to come back to that well again anytime soon.
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Ah yes. The invasion of Ashenvale.
How could I forget.
I agree with that.
Clearly there is effort but it is so badly mismanaged.
Like Battle for Dazaralor.
Why are we there? We already destroyed the ships AND got the scepter back.
So why raid the city?
Kill/capture Rastakhan? For what? We destroyed his navy and should have use that to attack some real targets.
Like the Blood Elf Sunwell or Bildgewater harbor.
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Yeah… What? The Horde attacked Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Darkshore, Theramore, Azshara, Hillsbrad, Gilneas, Arathi, Twilight Highlands, Redridge, Elwynn, and probably more things that I am forgetting…
That rhinestone worshiping failhammer wielder had to step back for Kalec to calm his chippy Jaina down.
Or she would have ended Org.
Thrall needs Jaina’s dragon-bone to to save Org and the Horde, and people still look to him as the Horde’s salvation?
And I get that, and I’m not trying to say that I think alliance players should be satisfied when their desire for revenge on Teldrassil won’t be fully realized (because of course it won’t).
I guess I just feel a little jealous that Aedren can even have that kind of emotional response at all. I’m just at the point where I don’t even see the characters as characters anymore. I’ve just lost interest in pretending that they’re actually doing anything, instead of just being annoyingly-written lines of test and programming meant to screw with the game’s set pieces.
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I am actually kind of envious of you.
I wish I could completely check out like you do.
Because at this point this is akin to an abusive relationship.
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This is kind of true. Every time Blizzard comes out with new Nelf lore, I can feel myself bracing to get punched in the face. I had this feeling before WoT. It’s hard sometimes, and lately, I have found myself having more fun RPing my Dark Iron, or playing D&D. Which is not great, considering I run a Night Elf guild that is centric on Kaldorei elitism and racial/cultural pride.
Not to disagree with you, or to criticize your post, but I try not to get caught up in any sort of “who has it better/worse?” talk. That sort of discussion can get pretty toxic, but more to the point, I don’t think its constructive. I don’t really understand what the story is like from a Horde fan’s perspective, I only have second-hand reports, so I can’t meaningfully measure my experience compared to theirs. I just try to acknowledge that Horde complaints are valid, without getting caught up in whether they are more valid than my own or not.
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I mean if you go back to classic Horde was the underdogs and that’s what made them so cool.