Correct.
And the current Horde is responsible for the atrocities of the old Horde too.
Also why on earth was this thread reported? I’ve never posted this one before.
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Yea, the atrocities that happened because of the alliance
Darn shame the Draenei caused Varians death like that
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Maybe it’s because you’re engaging in obvious trolling. Did you ever think of that?
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“Everything I disagree with is trolling”
PS: Flagged post restored by staff.
Let’s stay on topic.
The Alliance is the successor to the old Alliance which does mean we are culpable for the internment camps I will admit but the Horde is also the successor to the old Horde which makes them culpable for the genocide of Draenei and invasion of Azeroth, etc.
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How are the current horde culpable for the draenei? Like, the majority of the orcs who would have been able to participate in that are either dead or in wheelchairs at this point. Christ, there are whole generations of orcs who have never even seen Draenor.
Also if you don’t want to be accused of trolling maybe you shouldn’t be posting in such an utterly aggro manner.
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The newest Blomodoc thread.
Adding nothing new to the conversation.
The old Horde did not genocide the Draenei. That was just orcs?
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Also it was orcs who are mostly dead at this point; the only one I can think of who might be old enough to have participated in this and still breathing is Eitrigg?
Cuz yeah: the rest are dead as dicks.
Alliance has the highest Old God taint, too!
oh…wait…
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You forgot:
- Quel’Thalas (Horde Member).
No, they are not. See Quel’Thalas.
Where is this being argued?
We stand by the argument that the alliance racist actions towards the Blood Elves drove them towards the horde, and that is why they didn’t even consider joining the “Alliance”.
Furthermore, seems a bit hypocritical of you to say that and at same time ignore the fact that the current Horde is also linked to the previous Horde when the argument favors you.
You stated that no Warchief ever died while having the Warchief Mantle, but you ignore:
- Orgrim Doomhammer, died while Warchief
- Blackhand, died while being Warchief
- Ner’zhul, killed by Kil’Jaeden while still Warchief.
At same time, you hold the Horde accountable for everything that happened BEFORE the formation of the New Horde.
You’ve got to decide whether you stand correct or you’re an closeted troll.
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Listen, it’s 2024… we don’t yuck each others yum.
So by all means get all up in the old god’s taint.
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The post you’re referring to I specified during WoWs timeframe.
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Archbishop Benedictus and Archdruid Staghelm says hello.
Varok until end of BFA, Eitrigg, Rexxar, Drek’Thar, I also might have to revisit the Korsh’hag to remember all the Orcs still alive that appeared there and we’ve had an update on them.
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I’m a long-time Alliance player and Alliance supporter, but I do not think you can reasonably say that the modern Alliance is the same as the old Alliance, in the same way you cannot say the modern Horde is the same as the old Horde.
It contains many of the same constituent pieces, but has also lost many pieces and gained many new ones. More importantly, leadership/headship is different. The first Alliance (created at the time of the Second War) officially involved all of the known human kingdoms, as well as Quel’thalas, Ironforge, Gnomeregan and Aerie Peak, and was explicitly under the leadership of the Kingdom of Lordaeron (though all the kingdoms retained their individual sovereignty). I think the headship of Lordaeron is key to people’s different views on the continuity of the old/new Alliance.
After the Second War, the Alliance quickly began to dissolve without a shared enemy, and was all but completely gone by the end of the apocalyptic Third War. By the time WoW was released, Stormwind had rebuilt itself, but every other human kingdom was either destroyed or in a state of extreme isolationism. It’s impossible to overstate how much of a post-apocalypse setting vanilla WoW actually was, from a human perspective.
Stormwind came to be the head of an organization of nations which was also called “The Alliance,” but at the time it was VERY unlike the previous Alliance. It was puny. It was one recently-rebuilt human kingdom, the twin nations of Dun Morogh (Ironforge and Gnomeregan), and some half-hearted allies living in the woods on the other side of the planet (Darnassus). And while it’s true that various members of the old Alliance of Lordaeron eventually rejoined the new Alliance of Stormwind, they didn’t do so until much later, long after the new organization with its new leadership had defined itself on its own terms. And there are members of the old Alliance who did not rejoin the new one (Quel’thalas, the MANY “surviving” citizens of Lordaeron who became the Forsaken)
And even in rejoining the new Alliance, they all still retain their national sovereignty. Lots of nations who were allied in WW1 were still allied in WW2, but not all of them, and they all still have their own sovereignty and national interests to consider. The Alliance is exactly that: an alliance of sovereign nations.
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So in order:
Varok is dead.
Eitrigg is alive but super old.
Drekthar and the frostwolves didn’t engage in roadwork so he doesn’t count.
And I’n not sure the Rexxar is old enough to have been involved in roadwork either.
So… yeah. Eitrigg.
Cool.
So you make up arguments that favors your point of view while you disregard these very same terms when it comes to what the Old Horde did and hold them accountable:
- Racism
- Attempt of Genocide of Quel’Thalas Elves
- Concentration Camps and Slavery of Orcs
Whether you like or not, accept or not, these things are very recent and it happened, like it or not. And for all of those, Varian was the king of Stormwind, Magni was the King of Ironforge. They were part of this.
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Still not enough.
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Nobody is culpable for the internment camps except the people who enacted them, just as nobody is culpable for the Road of Glory save those that contributed to it.
That said: if demon-possessed muscle men with axes built a super-highway on their own planet out of the bones of the millions they had just committed a genocide against, all in order to lead their armies over those very bones to a portal to your world where they intended to do the same to you and your children, internment camps are really an absurdly gracious and merciful act when you finally win your war against them.
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I mean… If we’re going down this root then you’d better be willing to hand over the exploers league for the shenanigans they got up to in the southern barrens.
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They’re two distinct arguments, made in two different threads.
I admitted culpability to this, but this also means Horde are culpable for genocide of draenei and the invasion of Azeroth, also the horde engaged in slavery and continued to engage in it during WoWs timeline.
Exactly.
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Who founded the this alliance was the Regent Lord of Stormwind, Anduin Lothar, who became also the Supreme Commander of the Alliance of Lordaeron, because he led north the refugees of Stormwind Kingdom.
He was the leader of this alliance until his death, so Terenas assumed the leadership.
Unlike the Horde, the alliance has its kingdoms. It is not correct to use the same argument to compare both Horde and Alliance in this matter.
The Horde is not comprised of Kingdoms, but people that banded together. The tauren didn’t have established home in Mulgore when they joined the Horde. Remember that the Orcs found them and helped them against the Centaur in Thousand Needles so they would eventually settle in Mulgore.
The forest trolls were not part of the Original Horde either, Thrall found them in Stranglethorn and aided them against the Murlocs and they started banding together.
The Forsaken is a completely new races that comprises mostly of the former Lordaeron humans that were raised to dead and got free of the Lich King’s grasp.
While we have many of the same Orc Clans that were part of the Original Horde, the Orc Clans themselves have absolutely no influence or even matter, and members are not even alive anymore with exceptions like like Eitrigg and Drek’thar, Rexxar too. I could search for more names if needed but wouldn’t change its results.
The alliance still has:
- Stormwind Kingdom
- Gilneas
- Khaz’Modan and Gnomeregan
- Aerie Peak Dwarves
The missing members are all destroyed, with exception of Quel’Thalas that was driven towards the Horde due to the actions of the own alliance (twice).
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