That only happens if the Horde wins an honorable victory

Lore Story Forum
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The motivation the Alliance was given for attacking the Zandalari was to make sure that their navy couldn’t be used by the Horde against the Alliance. Why Anduin thought he was sending the Alliance to make sure the Zandalari were remaining neutral is anyone’s guess, but Anduin never expressed that to anyone until after the fact. As far as High Commander Halford Wyrmbane was concerned, who was the person running the Zandalari opperation based on the same as the Alliance player was told was the point of the attack, the Battle of Dazar’alor was a resounding success. With the Zandalari no longer a threat, the Alliance was free to focus on Sylvanas again, which was always their main goal, as was stated in the final quest in the 8.0 Alliance War Campaign:

    Anduin Wrynn says: The Alliance must ask even more of you, <name>. It is clear that we cannot hope to end the warchief's reign until we sever her ties to the Zandalari. That day will come... soon.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/An_End_to_the_Killing

It does matter, in that it distorts character motivation, when their repeated motivation is going after Sylvanas, and they don’t do that.

It most certainly does when Saurfang feels shame for enjoying the war and regretting having agreed to it at all:

As for Sylvanas, A Good War said her anger turned cold, not that it evaporated.

The novella shows her trying to think, and trying to look for a solution, but it starts and ends with her just having been spinning her wheels and not reasoning at all and not having come up with anything before “Warbringers: Sylvanas”:

That she comes up with nothing in her entire emotion filled monologue shows she’s been, as you put it, clouded by rage and not thinking clearly any more.

If it wasn’t her plan, she never told Saurfang or any of his soldiers what her real plan was, and thus, to Saurfang, it was never the plan. And once again, was Spuddyc’s point that Sylvanas even laid out exactly how the Horde would lose by being dishonorable, and so lost exactly in that way.

The section is presented as exposition with intended vagueness to be read into, not a spoon feeding of all facts to be known.

People can read our conversation for themselves, as it is all presented right there above, and see what I presented and determine for themselves if they agree or not, regardless of your inability to see it.

Certainly does. That’s what being the Night Warrior entails:

    Tyrande Whisperwind says: With this offering, I demand to wear your darkest face.
    Tyrande Whisperwind says: Elune! Make me the instrument of your vengeance!
    Tyrande Whisperwind says: Now, we shall have justice. The Night warrior lives... within me.

It does. Ivar Bloodfang and his pact have had no connection to the Night Elves before. It means that Sylvanas has actually unified forces from the Eastern Kingdoms to leave Gilneas and support the Night Elves in taking back Darkshore, which, once again, was the opposite of what Sylvanas wanted.

Which, once again, was Spuddyc’s point that Sylvanas lied to the Horde and still lost the war exactly in the way she said they would if they tried to win dishonorably.

And, as with Genn and the Night Elves, not having an understanding of the people she’s trying to play, in this case Saurfang.

And I expect the opposite, that nothing will come of it. Or, obviously, I rather would prefer that nothing comes of it.

You are factually wrong, and I will stop responding to you if that is what you want.

They were told for years that people thought Malfurion was boring and didn’t support the Alliance enough and that they should kill Malfurion off, and instead they had him live and become very supportive of the Alliance and far more people have praised Malfurion’s presentation since and no longer consider him boring.

So telling Blizzard to split the Alliance might just make them make the Alliance even more unified instead, and why they softened Genn’s leave and making Anduin understanding and supportive of it.

I assume they would have the Horde and Alliance be on the brink of peace between Saurfang and Anduin, but just before that could be made concrete they would have Tyrande come kill Saurfang so Anduin could scold Tyrande the way Varian scolded Jaina after the Purge of Dalaran and, of course, Tyrande in A Little Patience.

As I pointed out to Drahliana up here https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/that-only-happens-if-the-horde-wins-an-honorable-victory/187286/118, Tyrande can end up working with the Horde without Anduin’s invovlement and still keeping the Night Elves’ fangs.

Or they could end the faction war:

    PC Gamer: For a long time the conflict between the Alliance and the Horde has been ignored in favor of dealing with external threats, like the Burning Legion. Why is now the right time to respark the animosity that started it all?

    Alex Afrasiabi: We feel the Alliance-Horde divide is foundational and fundamental to World of Warcraft as a franchise and as a story, but we danced around it for a very long time. We’ve had run-ins, we’ve had close calls, but we’ve never been able to finish it—to have that resolution. We’re coming out of this expansion, Legion, and the world is not in a great place—the players and the factions themselves are not in a great place because there is all of this old animosity that hasn’t been resolved. It’s time to resolve it.


    Three factions…or one?

    Since Afrasiabi brought up the Saurfang vs. Sylvanas option, Mitch pressed him about the idea of splitting the Horde into separate factions for each camp. While the idea would be “thematically cool and appropriate for this scenario,” Afrasiabi explained that creating a third faction would really mean splitting up friendships and guilds since factions cannot adventure together. His preference would be the other way: that the Alliance and Horde could group together “one of these days.”

    “That is the bigger meta lesson of Azeroth,” he concluded, “that these battles that we fought, even when we are separated, are for the same damn purpose. For our home.”


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Here’s the thing. I don’t want anything to do with the Horde having to atone for anything. If you want an atonement narrative, fine, but have it in the Saurfang novel, or something. Not in the game.

Because I have no control over the narrative. I don’t like it, I don’t like where it has gone this entire expansion, and I don’t feel responsible for it. I play games to have fun, not to be told that I should feel bad for decisions that Blizzard’s writers made.

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Can it be the next Saurfang cinematic?

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Aren’t we ALL sick of Saurfang cinematics by now?

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I think it’s the only way we’ll get Tyrande in a full CGI cinematic.

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But, they could have just blown up the fleet to do that. The invasion and attacking Rastakhan was pointless. In fact their distraction arguably saved quite a bit of the fleet, and those lives were utterly wasted. As far as the reasoning Anduin gives, they didn’t sever the ties between the Zandalari and the Horde, they just weakened the Zandalari and drove them into the Horde.

At best what you’re describing is a situation where the head doesn’t know what it’s hands are doing.

Which is also relevant, given that if the purpose of the attack was to destroy the Zandalari fleet in order to focus on Sylvanas, killing Rastakhan and then not pressing the attack because they killed him is completely backwards.

So? People can have deep-seated regrets and shames and still provide correct reasoning.

I was referring to after she gives the order and Saurfang notes that her anger has disappeared. Regardless, someone being angry is not an indication of their thinking being flawed.

She was thinking about multiple things around the same time. First her objective, then how both her and Saurfang’s actions concerning Malfurion had undermined that objective, then what would happen given the current circumstances, then the possibility of outside interference having worked against them, then she starts to think of a new way to inflict the wound when Delaryn interrupts her.

She’s not just muddling around spinning her wheels, she considers every aspect of the situation relevant to her overarching strategy before considering how to meet her goals with an alternative method, and then someone grabs her attention. We might say the idea of Teldrassil was spurred on by her interaction with Delaryn, but she wasn’t just incoherently lost.

She doesn’t even attempt to start to come up with something new until the end of her dialog though. You’re framing someone reviewing the situation as being unstable for not immediately seizing on a new plan.

Saurfang knew the basics, his role was in advancing her tactical aims, not to know the entire strategy for the war. You might say not telling him was a critical flaw considering that he allowed Malfurion to escape, but that was an absurd blunder even within the confines of what Saurfang knew.

As I note later, that isn’t much the case.

I’m certainly not seeing what you’re seeing in that vagueness.

Okay? I’ve read your reasoning, and I disagree.

Even if we accept that it was a blessing more of Elune than Tyrande, it still has absolutely no relevance. It was just a temporary buff that disappears after the quest is done, and the Worgen seen afterwards haven’t changed in any notable regard.

But the Worgen and the Night Elves aren’t the Alliance, they’re just two factions within the Alliance. As it is they’ve grown closer while also growing more ideologically, and militarily, distinct from Anduin and Stormwind.

Side note, the Worgen leaving the Horde’s weaker front and attacking on their stronger front is arguably a good thing.

The bolded section is the issue here. If Sylvanas’ goal is to divide the Alliance, she is still on track for that. In the previous sections you didn’t quote, I note that rather than undermining the idea as she’s presented it to Saurfang, she was just lying about that being the only way in order to garner his support and fight the war in a way the Horde would be comfortable with.

If the idea that she lied is correct, then that means the contingency that she herself set that the only way to win and divide the Alliance was by fighting honorably was false. Which aligns with the fact that Sylvanas keeps saying that the war is on track to achieve her objectives.

Whether or not you think that means a loss for the Horde depends on what you think those objectives are, how they’ll come about, and how they’ll affect the Horde. Personally, I think her main objective right now is to destroy the Alliance. Most material we have shows that she wants that.

Nobody could have foreseen that Saurfang would let Malfurion go. It doesn’t even align in terms of being honorable, and it would result in a ton of Horde blood being shed down the road. Not to mention that it was brought about from a literal deus ex machina.

At most she should have just stayed to make sure he did it.

Not sure why you have that preference. Anyway, it’s a major setup, something will happen with it at some point.

Right, like making things up that contradicts our available information is such a reasonable position. Stop if you want on that basis.

What? Those two things make no sense together. On the one hand you have people thinking Malfurion was boring and disliking that he didn’t support the Alliance, so Blizzard responds by having him support the Alliance and fight the Horde. On the other hand, you have people saying the Alliance is too static, boring, reactionary, super good, or unified, and the solution is supposed to be them doubling down on all those things?

In the first situation Malfurion effectively switched gears to what people wanted from him, but in the second situation Blizzard is supposed to do the opposite of what people want by continuing to do what they’ve done for years?

As far as I’m concerned this is all good. And if Anduin were to scold Tyrande, she should just tell him off.

I think that would be a very poor outcome. You’d have Tyrande going from no mercy mode and blaming Saurfang for the war to her just chastising him. At that point she may as well just be wearing eyeshadow.

Afrasiabi says right there that they consider the divide to be foundational and fundamental to the franchise. They can’t “resolve” it by doing the exact same thing they’ve done every time before. In your next quoted section he talks about how he’d rather allow the factions to group together rather than create a third faction. I think overall that may mean the Alliance and Horde both effectively being dissolved as institutions.

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I really don’t think so, there is a hint of a division… but it hasn’t mutated into anything the likes of which Sylvanas was planning on. The story line, at this point, has the Alliance still more or less united and winning on both fronts, despite what very little division we have seen. On the other hand, you have literal rebellion forming in the Hordes ranks over her ‘dishonorable’ methods… with a whole batch of new leaders preparing to turn on her.

It does to Saurfang, obviously, who was sold on an honorable victory. Perhaps Sylvanas severely misjudged Saurfangs values and views of honorable combat, since he clearly believes by interfering in the duel, from behind no less, is what constitutes a dishonorable victory over Malfurion. The objectives, as they were sketched by Saurfang early on, were again still in effect so long as they take the tree, which they were in prime position to do having just conquered Ashenvale and Darkshore, with the remaining Alliance forces evacuating Darnassus.

You’re right in that Sylvanas obviously lied about what her objectives were with the man she tasked with planning the entire thing, and that’s the point I think I expanded on in previous replies.

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Anduin most definitely is shown consistently as having no idea what’s going on. And in the initial Alliance War Campaign quests in Vol’dun showed that High Commander Halford Wyrmbane is an excessively inefficient leader, and Shandris instead merely accomplishing his objectives more directly instead of in the convoluted manner Wyrmbane wanted to use.

Yet Shandris is still working with Wyrmbane come Nazjatar after Dazar’alor, as the Alliance remains united despite all of the above.

Further pressing on the Zandalari isn’t necessary, as is evident by the Zandalari not having been able to do anything against the Alliance ever since Dazar’alor.

Saurfang shows incorrect reasoning in forgetting what the wound that would split the Alliance was (being the idea that Genn would leave the Alliance if it went to support Teldrassil over Gilneas) and he was forgetting that because he was overwhelmed with regret and shame.

That was after she had already burned Teldrassil. And being angry alone is not an indication of their thinking being flawed, no. But thinking flawed can happen - which Sylvanas did, as analyzed - and can be explained by a person being overwhelmed with anger.

We then have two interpretations:

Mine: Sylvanas forgets what her plan is in a moment of emotional compromise and burns Teldrassil in a lack of inhibition and sense, throwing away her entire plan to split the Alliance.

Yours: Sylvanas lied to Saurfang and the Horde and was intending to destroy the Night Elves all along without telling anyone, but had still admitted to Saurfang that the Alliance would unite if the Horde tried to win dishonorably.

Either way, Sylvanas costs the Horde everything and was never going to split the Alliance.

She wasn’t able to come up with anything, and even issued the orders to prepare to invade the tree before Delaryn got her attention. She wouldn’t have come up with burning Teldrassil at all if Delaryn hadn’t talked to her and pushed her over the edge.

It was also an absurd blunder on Sylvanas’ part, who specifically told Saurfang that the Alliance would unite if the Horde won dishonorably, when Saurfang was the kind of person for whom winning honorably included near arbitrary dueling rules that could be enacted and adhered to at any moment. Sylvanas consistently doesn’t understand the people she’s dealing with.

You certainly do, as you know you also don’t know what Sylvanas real plan was, assuming she was lying to Saurfang and Horde the whole time.

And at least seven others do not disagree, and I’ll take their support over your dismissal.

Worgen haven’t even gotten their model updates yet, it would be unreasonable to expect they would also get character customization like the Night Elves did when they aren’t even in their finalized customization yet.

Except it’s not distinct from Anduin and Stormwind, as both Shandris and Genn are simultaneously supporting Anduin and Stormwind at the same time they are supporting the Night Elves at Darkshore.

I do agree, though, that leaving the Horde’s weaker front and pushing them out of Darkshore was a good thing.

She could have been making up something to Saurfang in saying the Alliance would unite if the Horde did not win honorably to get him into doing what she wanted, but then as addressed up above, she both made him think he had to act honorably, which included sparing Malfurion, and also ended up being right even if she didn’t intend to be that acting dishonorably in burning Teldrassil did unite the Alliance against her as they all came for Lordaeron.

As you had also commented, Horde soldiers seek to die honorable deaths in combat. Saurfang even thought Malfurion killing him in Astranaar would have been an honorable way to go. Further fighting against Malfurion would have resulted in more blood shed, yes. Blood shed that Horde soldiers could have very well reveled in and died happily in, if their senses of honor could be held intact. Whatever that entails.

Blizzard has a consistent track record of ignoring major setups and forgetting about them, especially when it comes to the Night Elves.

And it’s my preference because I’d rather the Night Elves not be responsible for more war, especially when the narrative can say that Tyrande would be wrong to and Anduin should have been listened to all along. That would be further kicking of the Night Elves that I am absolutely against.

Not making things up. Merely speculating and acknowledging things as agnostic until confirmed. That’s not headcanon. Assuming something that hasn’t been confirmed is the definition of headcanon, which is your status quo assumption.

Once again, I stand by that you are factually wrong in assuming status quo is canon. And I will stop conversation on the basis of your insisting otherwise to promote your headcanon as canon.

Key there is people wanted Malfurion dead, which was what Blizzard didn’t go with.

And likewise, Blizzard can make the Alliance races more distinctive and independent without copying the internal drama that is the staple to the Horde narrative so far.

And get villain batted to stop the war.

Forcing Saurfang to atone for his crimes for the rest of his days is far less merciful than simply killing him so he will suffer no longer.

Or unified into a single global institution to stand against global threats.

And then all players could play together. War Mode could be Anarchy Mode, where everyone is a PvP target if you’re not grouped with them, like many of the PvP gameplay activations already in game.

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Why not. We’ve already had two Saurfang cinematics dedicated to the theme that the Horde sucks and we should feel bad for having picked red at the selection screen. What’s one more?

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I liked your post. But it also made me sad.

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Move over Sylvanas the honorable Horde is coming to end your reign that has ruined the Horde. The Forsaken were a mistake. Never should’ve been added to the Horde.

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Well, we are coming to assist the Alliance in ending her reign, anyway. Then we’ll get a lecture from King Bieber and everyone else will be absolved of our sins like none of it ever happened. Woohoo, fun story for everyone.

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We? You’re a Sylvanas supporter. Hopefully you get the choice to go down with Sylvanas and lose while the real Horde claims victory.

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Oh, right, it’s you. I’d forgotten about you. No need to engage, but if you think I’m a Sylvanas supporter, you need to re-read my posts.

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I have read your posts. You’ve admitted that you would choose Sylvanas. You’ve also admitted you are originally Alliance but only play Horde because of Blood Elf Paladins.

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I wrote that I would choose her over Baine. Because Baine sucks. If I have to choose between two terrible choices, I’ll take just about anyone over Baine. I would take a pile of festering garbage over Baine.

As to your second point, it is inaccurate. I wrote that I originally starting maining Horde when Blood Elf paladins became an option, that I have actually played both factions over the years, including occasionally transferring this character over to Alliance, but that for some years now I have mostly played Horde for a variety of reasons. I have many characters, of many races and classes, because I am a human person who likes to try out different options in my video games.

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To nitpick, and hopefully also clarify you to Trivelfrank, your thread topic was technically “I’ll still take Sylvanas over Anduin.”

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Well, yes, Anduin as well, because he also sucks, but I assumed he was referring to a previous thread where he had gone at me for preferring Sylvanas to Baine.

I mean, I would take Sylvanas over a lot of characters, because even though she’s a super villain, at least she’s interesting. It’s like saying I’d take Cersei Lannister over Jon Snow. One bores the crap out of me. The other doesn’t. And this is a game. It’s supposed to be entertaining.

But BFA Sylvanas is still an evil villain who obviously shouldn’t be the Warchief. Sadly.

Edit: However, I also don’t want any of the characters I like to replace her, because it is a cursed job. Hmmmm…maybe I’m coming around on the Baine idea…

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I think the Horde rebellion plays into splitting the Alliance. Two factions of Horde confuses the situation and the morality of what the Alliance should do, especially since both parts have participated in the war.

An honorable victory involving sending assassins to sneak attack the Night Elves so they’d be all softened up for the main Horde force, which outnumbered them eight-to-one…? The point I was making is that Saurfang taking out Malfurion while he fought with Sylvanas and thinking that was dishonorable is insane considering what else he was party to. Especially since he seemingly just doesn’t care that it would cost Horde lives in the future.

Shandris isn’t Night Warrior’ifyed, and she’s not part of Tyrande’s army.

Anyway, there’s a difference between being inefficient, and having goals that contradict each other.

Zandalar is still one of the Horde’s best strongholds on the Great Sea, the place from which they marshal their forces in the war. And by “pressing”, I wasn’t just referring to the Zandalari, the Alliance gains an overwhelming naval advantage and seems to just do nothing with it.

Or maybe he just recognized that a wound could hurt in more ways than the one he had brought up way back at the start of the story. You keep acting like the Gilneans were this ironclad, “THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT WE’RE DOING ANYTHING” motivation, when they were just one thing that Saurfang first brought up at the start of the planning phase. The idea he expresses more at the end is holding Teldrassil hostage, but I don’t know why he would ever think that was viable if he was never prepared to follow through on the threat.

Your analysis doesn’t show her thinking to be flawed in that way though. You mainly just continued to insist it was emotional or scatterbrained, without much evidence.

First off, as far as your interpretation goes, it’s quite a stretch to say that a character which has been repeatedly stated as being calculating and cunning to totally fly off the handle and senselessly destroy her own plans for absolutely no reason.

Second, for my interpretation, there is in fact quite a bit of evidence showing that she always intended to destroy the Night Elves, as well as the rest of the Alliance. Her idea of slaughtering all of Stormwind, how she hesitated to attack once Tyrande had left, how she literally thinks that the tree was always going to burn. Maybe she didn’t want to do it at that point, but it was always on the table. And as I noted before, she continues to say now that things are effectively progressing according to plan, meaning her plans weren’t thrown away by some last minute emotionality.

But also, that last part, about admitting that the Alliance would unite? My interpretation was that this was also a lie for Saurfang’s benefit, in order to keep the Horde united by allowing them to fight as they wished while she directed things more specifically behind the scenes. It was never the only way.

She hadn’t even tried yet. Again, she only makes the consideration at the end of her dialog, right before Delaryn interrupts her. She probably hadn’t even considered how this current situation in Darkshore could be taken advantage of, she may have thought that she’d have to recreate the entire scenario on a different front, who knows.

Not to mention, the entire thing from Saurfang coming back to Delaryn engaging her is like, one, maybe two minutes? The fact that she even manages to take stock of everything I noted before in that time is impressive, if she was really raging so badly she’d have probably been busy arguing with/killing Saurfang in that time, but instead she immediately sets that aside to focus.

And you say Delaryn pushed her over the edge, but really their conversation just helped Sylvanas hit on a good idea. Burning Teldrassil evoked exactly the reaction from the Alliance that she had previously wanted, and she immediately knew what their target would be. Sure it didn’t split the Alliance at that exact time, but in the first version of events the idea was that it would take years.

Saurfang’s ideas of honor are nonsensical, nobody could understand them or predict that he’s spare Malfurion in that situation, especially given everything that he had just done as part of the war effort.

Not sure how not reading the vagaries in the same way as you and thinking that she has a hidden objective (Which was directly foreshadowed multiple times in the story and arguably outright stated back in BtS and maybe even here) somehow equals me actually seeing the same things you are.

I don’t know, that sounds like an argument from popularity to me.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

But it is? Tyrande and Genn clearly disagree with Anduin’s strategic decision making, both of them almost certainty aren’t aligned with his ideals of peace towards the Horde, and both of them have united the bulk of their forces to engage on their own front, not coordinating with Stormwind. Yes some Night Elves and Worgen are aiding the Alliance, but their contributions outside of Darkshore aren’t hugely substantial.

But the Darkshore warfront is still ongoing. And frankly, it would be better to push the Horde out of Northern EK entirely rather than devote resources towards retaking one zone close to the Horde’s main powerbase. I know you’ll come back with stuff like “Well Malfurion sometimes regrows trees at the end of the battle so Darkshore is an Alliance win” and all that, but the fact is it isn’t over yet, and even if it was, it’s not a massive victory.

Which is why orchestrated a massive misinformation campaign and enlisted all those Rogues and invaded with an overwhelming numbers advantage and praised an assassin that tried to lure him into a trap, yeah totally. I’m sure it was totally reasonable that he thought Malfurion was having an honorable duel with Sylvanas despite just earlier being told that he didn’t care in the slightest for dueling.

Saurfang was downright OOC in that situation when considering everything he had just been doing.

But she predicted that they would do that. It was even part of the original idea, Anduin desperately lashing out to try and end the war immediately. And they still were nearly destroyed. And their unity isn’t what it was before, just as she says at the end.

The main things undermining her plans isn’t her lack of ability to read people, it’s insane out-of-nowhere savior moments for the Alliance that nobody could possibly foresee. And in the next patch she’s still going to destroy a huge chunk of the Alliance fleet by leading them into a trap. I’m not even saying she’s good at understanding people, I’m just saying that’s not really the cause of the setbacks with the Alliance.

But throughout the story he also hates the idea of Horde lives being spent in the meat grinder of war. So why should he be happy about letting go of someone that could kill countless Horde soldiers, even stymie an entire battlefront by himself? Again, his ideals make no sense.

There’s only so much they can set something up and not pay it off. Ignoring Tyrande and the Night Elves now would be like doing nothing with the Blood Elves in BC, or cutting Jaina or Sylvanas out of Wrath entirely, or, well, not even having them show up in SoO.

I’d rather have Tyrande tell Anduin he’s wrong, actually. Or even Anduin come to Tyrande’s side. Hell, at least if Anduin moralized at her Tyrande would still be doing something that made sense for her in a story she should be heavily involved in. They can’t just cut her out of Azshara only to have her do nothing.

Also Anduin getting all preachy at her doesn’t carry much weight when most players seem to be in the mindset that she could do literally anything to the Horde and have it be justified.

I mean, I’d say that said confirmation is in fact the existence of status quo information and the assumption of things to the contrary of said information is headcanon. It’s not reasonable to need constant updates on something in order to say it’s like how it was last presented, the universe is just too large for that.

I think that wasn’t much of a major position. People mostly have just wanted him to do things and firmly be on the side of his people.

I mean, I could also say that people want Sylvanas dead, so should Blizzard do the opposite because of that? I don’t think so, contrarianism isn’t exactly a viable literary style.

Well they seem to only really know how to copy Horde drama, given all the High King stuff. I’m also not sure they can actually write distinctiveness and independence without friction, they’ve never really been able to do it for the Horde either.

Hell, what would that even look like? Even just making the Alliance races “more different”, how does that help them with always being reactionary, absurdly good, and seemingly always on the same page with each other? They could just give some races a facelift - But in the case of the Night Elves, it seems like you’re arguing against said facelift actually addressing any of those issues, or any of the things people have wanted changed about their story practically since the start of the game.

I think you’re too worried about that. Despite what they say, I doubt Blizzard can ever give up the war. Worst case is probably a Jaina-boss scenario where you fight her as the Horde and she just escapes.

And even if she did get the full bat? That would mostly be to Blizzard’s detriment. Like I said, a lot of people are behind Tyrande doing anything. Any lecturing from Anduin would probably just get people to hate him, not her.

It kind of depends on where he’d go, but really I don’t think one patch of helping the Night Elves and maybe some text indicating he did some more would be much of a reprisal.

Also I’m not sure the whole Night Warrior thing would go for the atonement angle.

Yeah, I’m sure all the people against faction homogeneity would like that. But more importantly, I’m not sure how that could even happen in the current setup, both in terms of the game and story.

I’d really rather the factions just dissolved and each group did their own things, working with, competing against, or being antagonistic towards each other on a case by case basis. Blizzard is probably too incompetent to write that, but I’d still trust it more than an “everyone joins together” thing.

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I’m kinda bummed over decisions Blizzard writers made. In fact, I’m only getting more bummed at the thought that we’re not all here because we’re “sad for lore”.