There may have been hints at an ulterior motive as well as hints of a mysterious benefactor behind her schemes.
I remember in Cata, when chains came out of no where and took Koltira. That always stuck out to me. When did she acquire abilities that were a cross between an Abom’s Meathook and Scorpion from Mortal Kombat? It just sort of sat there in my mind, and nothing came of it. Koltira won’t even discuss it.
And years later, here we are, with Chains of Domination being a thing. Chains pulling land into the Maw, and holding Azeroth’s Champions. Chains everywhere.
I don’t know what was planned when. But there may have been hints that they didn’t build on correctly. Or that we missed.
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Nothing like that though.
We pretty much know this has nothing to do with any of the people involved with the story back in the day. It’s a totally made up new thing and it’s nonsense to pretend anything else.
Going back years and even decades to change a story is stupid.
Not to mention we have always known frostmourne steals souls…
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yeah, it was between affrasabi and the rest of the team, affrasabi thought garrosh would be honorable, but he wasn´t planned to be honorable. Thats the Reason Stonetalon is the way it is.
The thing is Blizzard’s writing is not nor has it ever been subtle. I’m sorry but people seriously trying to weigh themes and subtext on this shlock are projecting ideas that just aren’t there.
That’s not to say Warcraft can’t have good story messages. WC3’s was ‘coexistence or extinction- take your pick’. But this was explicitly and loudly the moral of the story. BFA was particularly hilarious because it was hammering the “War Is Bad” theme like it owed them money. Even though this is fantasy war, and no amount of weepy orphans makes an aerial battle between chimeras and giant vampire bats look anything other than rad.
I had some renewed faith in Sylvanas because it seemed like they were moving away from Edge Of Night. There’s plenty of plot threads either abandoned, retconned or just ignored in WoW’s near two decades of existence so that didn’t strike me as an illogical conclusion. And Sylvanas seems to care about the Forsaken on a personal level. Doing stuff like putting herself between danger and them, like in Silverpine and the Broken Shore, which is the exact opposite thing you do with Bulwark.
But WoW’s writers can’t write anything but apocalypse tier chaotic evil villains. So that’s what Sylvanas had to be for BFA. They made her into a character so pointlessly evil I doubt she could have an egg for breakfast unless she dragged in the mother hen to watch. The idea there was some deeper nuance to her actions is pants on head idiotic. There of course will be reasoning retroactively grafted into the story. But as presented thus far she’s either a self centered psychotic or fictions most delusional airhead.
I guarantee you if she sticks around it has nothing to do with story and everything to do with marketing and sales. Legion sure sold well so we need more club goth elves on the box art. Because the bean counters in charge of Activision are bug people who cannot understand that the only guarantor of success is a quality product. So they’re just looking at sales charts and playtime algorithms and not, idk, feedback from long term players even as all their creative and technical talent abandons ship.
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this is so childish and gundams giant robots somehow dimish its anti war themes? it doesnt and cool set pieces in wow dont either
Yes it does. All Quiet In The Western Front doesn’t have a scene where Paul guns down a hundred Englishmen who are crawling over a German tank like Geiger’s alien for some reason. Because that would be absurd and completely undermine the narrative theme.
WoW’s trying to make me feel bad about having to murder conscript farmers. But I’m doing it in a Mag’Har death wheel. Careening downhill in a ball of fire and death, obliterating everything in your path; is a wild power fantasy. That and maudlin “Did they need to die?” ideas mix like gin and chocolate milk.
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Nah you just dont want to understand, Many games have anti war themes, that are good, the fact that you kill people in them doesnt dimish the theme, thats just a YOU issue, wow has always been a pretty good anti war story up until they started to redeem a genocider
Kat you are to conversation what dead rats are to a kitchen’s health and safety inspection.
Spec Ops: The Line uses the cool bits of war to punch you in the stomach. The White Phosphorus scene plays out like any drone mission from CoD or the like. Only in this case it grabs you out of your fantasy and rubs your nose in the horrific results of such weapons.
BFA never gives you pause for thought about the injustices of war. Mainly because outside Teldrassil the Horde and Alliance’s other war crimes don’t happen in their respective playthroughs. Brennadam and the scouring of the Vulpera could have some potential for reflection. But these things only happen when playing the other faction. Actively encouraging you to attack because these are clearly murderous bastards who want to cause cruel and unusual harm.
If BFA’s an effective anti war narrative then Phantom Menace is a rousing story about the dangers of trade cartels.
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lol everything has to be extremes doesnt it, spoken like someone who scratched the surface and then walked away, Gundam is a amazing anti war, story, one that deals with the horrors of war, deals with the trama civilians and soldiers alike have to deal with, and its all set with giant robots killing each other with lazer beams just cause the flashy lights distract you, or it doesnt take you the extreme end like spec ops the line, doesnt mean its a bad anti war story. Just means that you have a very narrow view of one
it literally does with teld
explains alot, if you didnt understand the prequels lol
Redemption is not for Characters like Baine or Anduin. Heck, even the stuff Anduin is doing now probably requires therapy on Anduin’s end but no redemption in the eyes of others. Even the Archon knew the Jailer was in control of Anduin as he approached her - she wasn’t mad at Anduin. She wanted the Jailer to release him.
Attempts a redemption are usually set for the worst.
That is a very good point. The Horde doesn’t see the worst of Brennadam. The Alliance doesn’t participate in the worst against the Vulpera. That seems like the opposite way of showing the horrors of war - by showing only the things the enemy does to you, it is almost pro war propaganda.
Maybe I am an Uber Nerd… but the Trade disputes in Phantom Menace were very interesting - more interesting than the Podrace portion.
And the Senatorial workings in Attack of the Clones were intriguing. I think it is a nice touch that Jar Jar is the one that initiates the vote on emergency powers. Is he unintentionally responsible for the fall of the republic - or is he the sith master!
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All the political stuff in the prequels was good
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Eh, maybe on Alliance side; Horde literally never mentions Teldrassil after the pre-patch.
you didnt talk to any of the horde leaders did you, they mention it at least one time every patch other than 8.3
I remember that Tauren in BfA who was still mad about the Camp that shall not be named.
Again, more reasons why we should beef, than why war is a bad thing.
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You’re not required to talk to Horde leaders for much of the expansion, the only time I can remember was talking to Baine for Zandalar stuff and his dialogue was Zandalar focused. He might have mentioned it during the godawful rebellion quests but I’ve made effort to forget the particulars of those for a while.
I do remember Gallywix making it into a joke though now, so I’ll alter ‘literally never’ to ‘rarely outside the Rebellion questline’ to cover the bases.
Nothing that we could play through again and say “Wow, I can’t believe I didn’t see that.”
When a twist is good, you can rewatch it or reread it and see the breadcrumb laid out that was overlooked.
We don’t have that here.
Chains are one of many generic assets that are used frequently in WoW. There’s nothing to suggest that they’re anything more than a convenient visual thrown from an Undercity Portal to represent that he’s literally being shackled.
Of course it’s schlock, and of course they aren’t subtle. That’s why anytime Danuser says dumb things like “we set this up in Edge of Night” it should be disregarded as the revisionist trash that it is.
That sounds about right.
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That statement more than any plot or gameplay fumble has killed my interest in this franchise. Incompetence is one thing, but don’t lie to my face. Especially when it’s such a weak lie disproved easily with commonly avaliable information. They had to actively retcon Edge of Night. Every part of the novella about Sylvanas is from her first person perspective. She does not interact with any specific entity nor makes any deals. Unless we’re to believe she is such a next level schemer that she’s working angles even she herself is oblivious to.
And she died again in Silverpine. Where we weren’t privy to her 1st person perspective nor any perspective on where her soul was. Would also make sense that’s when the Jailor would approach her because he must’ve noticed a soul getting rescued from the Maw, and probably would take notice upon seeing it return.
The part that is egregious to me, and has always been egregious to me, is that Syvlanas was being written by different people at a time when Dansuer was not even involved in this company.
I know, realistically, what’s happening. They’re letting him play with the lore of the game, even though he wasn’t there to create it. It just feels grimy to unravel the visions that had already been laid out by people like Metzen and Kosak and not retroactively invalidate them by building motivations for a character that she didn’t have at the time.
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