I want them back. Even if we had vendors it would only solve some problems. Even WoD-style gearing would’t fix OP PvE items from being used like Getti’ikku or those pants that shot a void bolt for 50k. Or whatever their next “artifact” gimmick is next xpac like Crucible of Flame.
Would just be nice to know someone beat me because they played better and not because they have a higher ilvl or used an OP PvE item. I get that templates weren’t “fun”, but this sure isn’t either. It’s also just not realistic to expect the devs to micromanage PvP balance and find every single PvE item added every patch and adjust it for PvP use. That’s just not going to happen.
let’s just get templates back and solve like 8 problems with 1 fix and accept that PvP gearing isn’t going to as interesting as it could be in a perfect world.
the only people ive seen say this were people desperately trying to relive being in college and playing everquest in 2001
templates were point blank good for the game because of where the game was
and anyone who thinks post reforging that they “chose their stats” in wod is literally cooked
PvP vendor : do u want haste mastery or haste crit bracers?
Player : yeah so this is my high mastery build, as you see we have the same gear i just CHOSE to increase my mastery by .04% by picking up the mastery bracers
such rpg 1!!11!1
bring back mop gearing
give pvp trinket bonuses
resil give back vendors
but if you wanna pretend you were “choosing your stats” and “rpging so hard!!” dont act like a point where you couldnt reforge was your ideal
Different playstyles with different stats. You can’t trust the devs to give you the correct secondary stats template wise when it comes to balance. You’ll just end up with lazy primary stat changes / damage % changes.
Vendors, Reforging, and no Warforge/titanforge/rng gems is way better than templates which was just a bandaid for non-vendors.
Resilence played a huge factor into pvp, ever since it was cut and changed into pvp power and then removed, it completely changed pvp. Templates were good in the matter of alts and gear not making a difference in pvp.
TBC, Wrath and if i recall Cata did not have reforging. Yet all three expansions had good pvp gear and had the ability to swap in certain pieces of PvE gear if you wanted at a trade off for resilience.
Templates sucked, they gave zero incentive to pvp outside just getting the mog. It just isn’t what RPGs are about. They also give zero flexibility in playstyle or builds which leads to even more meta builds than we have now.
If BFA had templates, it would be legitimately worse. You’d lack the frequent balance patches of legion and then have zero way to actually alter the performance of your class through getting certain stats/azerite traits. This would lead you to only being able to play the meta.
How would having or not having templates change PvP incentive? The rewards would be the same as they are now. The only way I can see it impacting incentive is if someone wants to go into arena using an OP PvE item only to find out it doesn’t work there then being like “I don’t want to PvP if I can’t use this”. IDK maybe I am missing something.
I don’t trust blizzard to make the attainable gear competitive
OP’s original point was about giving blizzard the least amount of variables to work with because they have done a piss poor job helping us enjoy the game. Reforging isn’t coming back, titanforging isn’t going away, and who knows what’s happening with gems. Every expac we play roulette with “what system will they ruin this time?” Even if one component changes for the better, unequivocally several others will take a turn for the worse.
News flash, we aren’t going back to the glory days of wow gearing/arena anytime soon (if ever). Templates are only 1 expansion old and at this point might be the best chance we have at enjoying competitive arenas.
I skipped Cata, just assumed reforging came out in MoP.
I liked reforging in the context of hit/expertise/etc. I would just prefer vendor based gearing with pvp stats (resilience mainly) and the option to have 2/3 different stat itemizations per piece.
This idea that blizzard had of pvers needing to be able to have the best gear in PvP and pvpers being able to PvE with pvp gear at a high level just doesn’t work.
I don’t like templates. I want vendors and reforging back. Templates is not the answer. They can bring vendors and reforging back just as easy as they can templates, so why would we settle for an inferior choice?
Back before WoD pvp gearing was a way to get a set of gear that at baseline was solid for all content. This allowed pvpers to do PvE, but it was at best an entry level set for raids. So if you were on a pvp server or wanted a good set of gear for doing dailies/grinding gold/BGs/World PvP/etc. you could do your weekly pvp arena cap.
The way pvp gear is now is that it’s more or less aligned in strength compared to PvE gear but drops much less frequently. In previous expects, it had less strength in raid/dungeon content, but it was guaranteed so you could get a full set pretty easily.
Pvp gear originally had the design philosophy that it was the best for pvp, but the bare minimum for you to start raiding. So better than dungeon gear, but not better than the gear that drops from the current tier.
The only time raiders were incentivized for pvp was when they got insanely good gear from raiding, mixed with pvp gear to pub stomp arenas. This was like shadowmourn, ARP stacking, PvE trinkets. They would still lose to good pvpers regardless, but that high-end raid gear did allow them to flex on the average player.
They aren’t going to bring reforging back just for PvP, and I don’t see them bringing it back for PvE. It’s not a realistic request imo.
Also with regards to vendors and reforging you should also remember this was at a time when you could enchant 3x the amount of gear you can now, and almost every gear slot had 1-3 gem slots. If you just add vendors and reforging without the extra enchant and gem slots your ability to sway your stats in one direction would probably be half of what it was.
And again none of this would fix the issue with new PvE gear with effect text, procs, etc. being added every patch and abused in PvP. The devs will not balance any of this on a timely basis or adequately if they even do at all.
I would be ok with the return to templates … they at least pushed skill up closer to being a factor. PVE items absolutely dominate PVP.
I have no interest in rated pvp atm do to horid class balance and PVE dominating PVP. I have had fights where Cut of death was more than 10% of my damage. The system is just busted and thats why participation is so low.
At this point though i think were all beating a dead horse.
We JUST need vendors! And more frequent tuning! And reforging! And PvP gear! And static gems! And no more titanforging!
Not realizing this is the equivalent of the company you work for asking, “How can we make this a better place to work?” and the response being, “Fire my boss, the CFO, the COO, double the amount of vacation days, and increase all wages by 20%.”
