You aren’t wrong. My buddy had me heal for him in MC. Goes out, comes back peeps over my shoulder and told me to stop healing so much. I asked Why?. If they see you using to much mana they’ll expect more out of me next raid…
Thats a healer… So yeah pretty sure with 40 people all trying their best you could bring an off spec or two and not really be “carrying” them.
It’s not that, but that almost no one cares about trying to be the best at an old game.
Old raid videos demonstrate that even the best players in Vanilla’s prime were pretty terrible by the impressions this forum would give you. So many bosses with no sunders, keyboard turning and clicking, classes in gear that’s not even very useful for them, ‘bad’ debuffs on bosses, etc… Still, they down the boss, still they have fun.
However, I fear not the hyperbole and stigma, because it will pass. Once all the best players roflstomp their way through everything from MC to naxx, meeting their goals…then what? After all is said and done, in a game that is going nowhere further, then what? It’s difficult to find any reason to care about getting left behind to doing something suboptimal.
Nobody is saying vanilla didn’t have flaws, that developer intentions often failed to manifest as reality(such as paladins being a supportive melee fighter, which worked, but it was simply easier and more efficient to play them as a healbot), but they are saying they don’t particularly care.
At all that stress and hard sacrifice was already done long ago. Now people can actually just play the game.
That’s the thing about meters; they only give raw data, but no context whatsoever. Logically, whatever throughput gained by throughput-increasing buffs or debuffs a player provides can and should be attributed to that player, but meters cannot do that. There’s a great deal of brain-wracking math to discern just how much all those salvations and nightfall swings actually give. Add those salvs to the paladin’s inherent damage and it bumps up their value as a DPS quite a bit. This is why paladin tier sets were overbudgeted with a variety of stats up until T2.5 and T3.
It’s just a whole lot easier to glance at meters and see those warriors and mages are at the top of the totem pole, and the paladin is near the bottom, and assume the paladin isn’t doing anything while the warriors and mages are doing everything.
Also for offspec there’s some you want anyway - a Shadow, a Feral, etc. You can get away with more if they’re hard workers.
I would think that your first thought might have been that the threat/aggro management by 1.12 was such that pure DPS classes could go full bore with little to no worry about drawing aggro from tanks, which allowed them to pull even further ahead from hybrid DPS, who would certainly go OOM in attempts to keep up with them on meters. This contributed to the “viability” argument against hybrids. They became less viable than pures because pures no longer had to throttle their DPS as much. hybrids were not non-viable, except in the eyes of those that saw meters as the end all be all of content engagement, utility beyond that of hybrids be damned.
This is partly why a number of vanilla players let out a collective groan when the announcements of classic being as 1.12-ish as possible. While the content was made easier because of talents and gear, hybrids stayed the way they always were. Just now they were further behind than the rest of those doing DPS.
Not wrong. Guy had all day to provide a good post and came up with this cluttered mess.
I seriously doubt anyone has illusions about you, Zyrius.
The argument is that people can contribute even when not using the most ideal spec. A bad spec > AFK and it definitely was smoother running with 40 active people. Early raids weren’t easy by any means, it took till nerfs before world first clear of MC.
I mean, we are using 1.12 talents so…I bet that the spec vs class will be vastly different compared to classic original launch. Like the argument to say you shouldn’t because whatever reason is mute and dumb. Maybe if classic wow was launching like the original launch then yes I would agree to an extent. But it’s not so, I disagree.
This has always been a nonsense argument because you can always just get a good player on a dwarf priest which makes the whole thing moot.
Except that firemen need ladders and raids dont need support players because healers cover everything a support can bring.
I’d rather a player that is always excited, brings cheer to the team, and is always working hard to improve than a good player that brings nothing but numbers and doesn’t care about the guild.
A min/max guild isn’t telling you how to play. You can play however you want and they probably wouldn’t care at all.
I think maybe the issue is that you want to tell the min/maxers that they have to let you play with them when they don’t want to because they play the game differently than you.
Sounds great!
We are a casual raiding guild. I want people to have fun and play what spec they enjoy (the casual part), but I cannot allow people to play non-performant specs and be carried (the raiding part).
I feel like our policy is a good compromise.
All of these people are in for a rude awakening when classic launches… I mean yeah you CAN bring 10 balance druids to a raid… but you’re not going to have a good time.
That’s great - power to them.
This is not at all the issue. I don’t think I’ve seen one thread on these forums demanding that guilds or groups accept people no matter the spec.
There are however, multiple threads daily saying x isn’t viable and if you play it:
A) the sky is going to fall on you
B) everyone is going to laugh at you
C) you’ll never get a group for anything
None of that is true.
I wasn’t being sarcastic. It really sounds great. Fair all around. Can’t ask for more.
How do you feel about hearing someone chew tobacco over vent?
What about those players that support more than dps? Balance druids for crit and winter’s chill mages come to mind. Do they not get gear because they aren’t the big bad dps and bring other utility to the table?
I think what people are saying is that IF YOU WANT TO RAID, then you should expect resistance or difficulty if you play specs not viable for raiding.
Which is completely true.
Whhhhaaaat?
40 druid raid sounds like a blast!