That was an excerpt.
Obviously we will take into account unique buffs that players bring to the raid.
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What they should be saying is:
‘IF YOU WANT TO RAID WITH US, then you should expect resistance or difficulty if you play specs not viable for raiding.’
Which is what you appear to be doing and that’s great. Not what the OP and many others appear to be doing though.
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I’d probably tell them to use PTT
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PTT? Is that like nicarette?
Push to Talk ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
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You kids are getting too high tech in your raids.
In MY day, I had to open the window and yell two doors down to my buddy Bob if I needed him to tank swap. Now THAT was hardcore raiding.
You ever try tanking while holding your monitor in one hand, holding the window up with another, stancedancing wusing your toes, while yelling over your shoulder?
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Cool you check back in here once you have your Min-Max BIS raid comp for all 40 slots.
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(just going along with football references) And Tom Brady (![:face_vomiting:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/face_vomiting.png?v=6" ":face_vomiting:")
) was a 7th round draft pick and would never be more than a back up QB in the NFL.
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The biggest issue with your guild is that your rules are not proportionate to the challenge. If you’re raiding Mythic in retail under Ion’s designs, this might make sense.
You’re going to be running fifteen year old content with no mechanics that has been theorycrafted to death. We’ll be seeing people run it with clown comps just for fun. You don’t need to get kitted out like the Navy Seals to go for a walk in the park.
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I think you underestimate people who want to RP or just don’t like certain specs.
You’re not wrong in your reasoning for making raid groups. But there is a (hopefully minority) group of players who think their meme spec is actually going places. When the majority of them will not.
On Reddit today there was a group of people just happy to get to play boomkin, and they know the Mana limitations, which translates into DPS limitations for longer fights.
Some of them want to just PVP and don’t care. Some plan to start their own guilds. Some will actually do the work it takes to do 80% or the damage for 200% of the effort.
I really don’t care, as long as they’re happy. I don’t plan on running a guild or raiding at all.
I feel bad, though, for the people who get told “play what you like” and translate that to “and others should accept you.”
Those two things are wholly unrelated.
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We’re not running 40-mans through Tier 1 content. We’re going to run through it with as few people as possible to minimize the coordination overhead and maximize loot distribution.
The dps thresholds will be calculated based on having 20 dps in the raid
I think most people who are saying hybrids can meet raid requirements know that very specific types of runs are an exception. Some people will do that and im eager to see how far they can push those limits but for a 40 man raid not trying to push speed records, it’s absurd that a lot of people are saying hybrids will be a detriment to the raid.
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The difference is in both of those cases that Flutie and Brady HAD A CHANCE TO, AND THEN BEAT THE ODDS/ STATISTICAL TRENDS…
Trying to play a hybrid dps in higher level raids is more like trying to claim Mike Glennon is going to suddenly turn his career around and become the next HoF level QB. He’s a known quantity at this point, and that quantity is known to not perform at the NFL level.
Hybrids (particularly the really bad specs) are the same… You aren’t going to find some weird hybrid playing the class in some magical way no one ever thought of at this point. The math is the math, and numbers are all known… and some specs just suck. It is what it is.
And look, I don’t like it anymore than some of the hybrid mains do… I’d have considered “maining” an enhancement shaman if they weren’t complete trash at the raid level, and I advocated heavily for blizzard to consider boosting goddawful specs like enhance going into classic (much as I advocated for actually fixing them during actual vanilla), so long as those boosts came in ways that had no (or at absolute worst minimal) impact on pvp or rotation/playstyle. Things like turning stormstrike into a self buff rather than a debuff wouldn’t have changed enhance beyond allowing them to actually use stormstrike in raid pve. Basically keep the spirit of the class without leaving them stuck in town on raid nights…Those ideas where largely overruled and blizz is opting towards recreating even the pretty obvious (and in some cases admitted) design flaws they had back in the day.
It’s absurd that some people still refuse to understand fairly basic math on the subject. Most hybrids provide substantially less overall value than other options in general, and then get less value out of the loot they use up which could have gone to those better options.
Eventually as guilds progress onwards, hybrids will become an ever increasing rarity. Why? Because the primary method of guild recruitment after the first raid tier is via simply poaching people who are already at least somewhat geared, from weaker guilds, and those stronger guilds aren’t going out of their way to poach the borderline waste of a rosterslot/loot hybrid classes. One could even argue that main incentive for the good classes/specs to jump ship at all to those better guilds is specifically so they no longer have to carry the dead weight from suboptimal players.
You will still A FEW hybrid dps running around in naxxramas, but by and large they where just the ones lucky enough to START from the begining (MC+) in a guild that was eventually going to get to Naxx regardless… The people joining those middle tier guilds, that have a 50+% chance of eventually stalling/dissolving from higher tier guilds poaching their good players before AQ40/Naxxramas are almost assuredly just completely screwed from progressing, and quite specifically because they where incapable of making the right choice on the character select screen.
No one really seems to understand. Their biggest detriment is not that they do below-average dps; the biggest problem is that they are expecting up to 39 other people to carry them so they can goof around with an oddball spec while everyone else is trying to kill bosses and push progression.
This puts the guild leadership in a difficult spot where the stronger raiders start leaving for more serious guilds or else the goofball needs to be kicked.
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Except this isn’t the NFL. This is a solved game, played by people who have fifteen years of experience with progressively harder raid requirements and mechanics. These are the people that survived Cata raiding. You could have a raid that is half enhancement Shaman, and someone would figure out how to make it work.
The game is also not going anywhere. Unless you are going to be a world first, your try harding gets you nothing, because there will never be an expansion that invalidates progression. Eventually everyone will get up to your level, and as more and more raiders get to T3, there will be an ever increasing supply of raiders to make the older content easier.
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People do understand. That’s a retail mentality though. People who, for whatever reason, want to push progression are going to turn up with an optimal spec if they’ve joined a guild that’s made their intentions known.
For everyone else, there is no deadline or rush to complete content. There’s never going to be new raids or new level caps or more gear added; why would you not want to experiment with crazy specs?
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This thread has a strong smell of your mother’s basement and mountain dew.
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Well, now we know Dick Chaney plays a lock.
Just teasing Poca.
No raider is going to leave a guild if they’re downing bosses unless they have a very specific reason to.
And if you’re not downing bosses, it’s not because of the hybrids.
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That’s not a retail mentality. That’s just raiding guilds.