Telling players they can bring whatever spec they want into raids

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Who cares what people play, less competition.

Well you will when you either need a tank or healer, or you want to bring your random spec into a group

[Shimy-khadgar]

That’s why you find a friend that has no life!

[Kuiz-hyjal (Kuiz)]

Instead you’d rather stack DPS who all use the exact same gear, exact same weapons… because when they are fully decked out they might deal more damage.

Aaaaaaaand what’s the issue there exactly? If he or his raid wants to stacks DPS what does that have to do with you? Are you a part of that raid?

I’m getting a strong “it is not enough that I avoid players with different ideals, those players must not exist in the first place” vibe here, as if the very idea that somewhere out there a raid is benching someone for not performing to their standard is somehow ruining your enjoyment of the game.

[Cormith-wyrmrest-accord]

I’m getting a strong “it is not enough that I avoid players with different ideals, those players must not exist in the first place” vibe here, as if the very idea that somewhere out there a raid is benching someone for not performing to their standard is somehow ruining your enjoyment of the game.

Probably has more to do with when somebody in a dungeon group starts flipping tables because they don’t like how somebody else in the group spent a talent point. Which I have seen happen.

[Dib-onyxia]

I’m getting a strong “it is not enough that I avoid players with different ideals, those players must not exist in the first place” vibe here, as if the very idea that somewhere out there a raid is benching someone for not performing to their standard is somehow ruining your enjoyment of the game.

This entire topic is based on on the premise that raids will never invite hybrids specced into anything but their healing tree, which is provably false. Personally I’m attempting to understand the mindset that is convinced stacking warriors/rogues is going to be a good idea.

I have zero intention of being any where near these types of players, even if I was to play a rogue / fury warrior, I’d never join such a comp. It just seems so odd to want to invite so much competition for such a limited resource.

Then there is the simple issue of buffs, a raid needs a minimum of 4 paladins just to cover might/wis/salv/kings/light. 5 if you include sanc and 6 if you give each just 1 blessing to manage.

I’m guessing the min/max type would not see the benefit of sanc and thus take 4 paladins, apparently all healing. Then there is priests, one has to be disc/holy for the spirit buff and possibly 1 shadow for the debuff? how many druids? 1 for mark?

I have never once claimed they shouldn’t exist or were in some way impacting my enjoyment of the game, I just don’t see how it is supposed to be a good idea. The entire notion is foreign to me, It just doesn’t make sense.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

It’s pretty simple. If you want to clear raids quickly and easily, you pick the good classes and build a raid composition that actually functions. If you want to “have fun,” you invite the meme specs.

I don’t have fun taking 3 times as long to clear content.

[Sylveinn-dalaran]

Allow dual spec and this won’t be a problem.

[Liq-lethon]

Considering I was in a Naxx guild that actually made progression and was a paladin as well I know what role pallies will be playing if a guild expects to get anywhere. Any guild can bring a ret who gets bottom of dps charts and kill a boss but it is not ideal and no serious progression guild will do it because you are sacrificing not only a much needed healer spot but a GOOD dps spot.

[Chawana-altar-of-storms (Chawana)]

“Ok I got the ball out Timmy we can play again!”

throws into the hoop

ball gets stuck again

“Oh yeah we’re still using that crappy net lol”

“It’s ok Timmy, getting the ball stuck is 1 point!”

Still playable.

Meanwhile, old geezer grumpbags will be whining that the kids found a different way of playing with their oddly-shaped net.

Get over yourself.

[Raven-azshara]

All aura buffs, most totems, blessings, buffs in general etc. None of these can be properly tracked to show exactly how much they contributed.

And they dont need to be, because a healer can bring them all and properly heal.

A hybrid will have either garbage dps gear or garbage healing gear. You arent getting double the gear awarded to you for both roles. So not only are you poorly specced as a healer (if you have any points in the tree at all) but your healing gear blows as well because its just a cobbled set of leftovers no one else wanted.

[Raven-azshara]

Personally I find the entire concept of raiding without hybrid DPS hilarious, hybrids only compete with anyone on a very few select pieces of gear. You’d rather bring a ton of carbon copy DPS who all compete for the exact same gear while sharding all the hybrid dps gear because… that seems like a good plan?

Hybrids use the same dps gear as everyone else does for the most part. Their tier sets are focused on healing so they are literally rolling on every dps item that everyone else is.

[Samweller-gnomeregan]

If a raid wants to bring some of the less optimal specs (ret, boomkin, etc…) more power to them. Vanilla was much less of a min-max experience than WoW today, and I definitely preferred it that way. I think retail is way too try-hard. I liked vanilla way more because of the sense of unknown - yes, there was theorycrafting, but so much of the game was still a mystery and people did things that were so utterly wrong… and it was still a blast.

[Arrtilarr-warsong (Arrtilarr)]

Play whatever spec you enjoy. WoW is a video game played for fun. Something a lot of people have forgotten.

it is fun to play with ppl that do their best working for common goal;

it is not fun to carry a bunch of afkers and idiots who cant spend talent points in a right way after 14 years of community expirience;
it is even less fun to be a selfish person who want the whole raid to suffer… or at least to be less effisient because of his presence;

ofcouse you can find (theoreticaly) a same minded guild who accept oomkins, prot paladins, melee mages, wand-dps-priests, bow-dps-warriors and etc…
but then you should forget about so called “progress”, be happy with 3/10 MC on NAXX release

If boss dies, and everyone has fun, where is the problem?

and what if the boss did not die? then you stuck here for weeks or even monthes… sooner or later you start your work on mistakes to bring your raid to the level

I hope we can get away from this mentality that optimized spec > what I enjoy playing.

what if i enjoy to play a mage in green agi cloth and attack mobs in melee?
i want you to carry me through the content… forum guys told me it could be done in 39 anyway
oh and i also want loot on the same rules with others ;

[Proaris-bleeding-hollow (Proaris)]

The worst specs for PVE are Feral, Balance, Ret.
All three are viable and if the person playing them actually puts in the effort will land in the top 15 dps in a 40 man raid.
Your entire point in 15 years old.

[Daesûl-thrall (Daesûl)]

I have a combat dagger spec that I believe will be totally sufficient for PvE, yet differs enough from the meta to make me happy. It has some clearly PvP talents. As someone who detests the mere mention of respec, I made it so I won’t have to.
I’m under no delusion that meta guilds will be out looking to recruit me. They certainly won’t. Suits me perfect.

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

Lord looking at the DKP/LC crap makes me remember why I hated Vanilla raiding.

Luckily there are generally enough folks on a server willing to roll for drops to put a semi decent guild together.

[Deloch-thrall]

The worst specs for PVE are Feral, Balance, Ret.
All three are viable and if the person playing them actually puts in the effort will land in the top 15 dps in a 40 man raid.
Your entire point in 15 years old.

So true. I’m getting tired off all this over exaggerated nonsense. Back in vanilla our guild took in so many ‘wrong’ specs, had a druid MT, and we cleared the raids just fine.

There are always going to be some try-hard wannabe elitist meta-guilds, but there will be lots of opportunity for people to play what they want.

“won’t get into raids”

[Hammafistz-kelthuzad]

Except there’s no such thing as Mother Nature… So…

[Starz-boulderfist]

Do you mean rim? Net size doesnt really matter all that much…

[Derka-wyrmrest-accord (Derka)]

I love how the analogy completely defeats the argument the OP was trying to make.