As it should be.
Much like reasonable people do, the guild will look into why the boss didn’t die and if need be, they will ask a player to sit out for the boss. This is what guilds have done for a long time so I don’t see how this won’t work here.
If you are a sub-optimal player or playing a sub-optimal spec, you need to expect that you will be benched for at least a few fights. That doesn’t mean you can’t play what you want. Look at Method, some of the best raiders in the world and plenty of them are benched for multiple fights. Do they rage-quit because another guy took his place for a fight? No, they work together as a TEAM.
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Warriors, priests, shaman, Druid, Paladin, are all hybrids.
That’s a pretty big assumption on you’re part.
“You can’t dps or heal because your gear will suck”. What kind of inane argument is that? If you’re running a MT with garbage gear you’re not getting anywhere, either.
Paladins, in particular, only have 1 talent that increases healing, in all 3 of the specialization. ONE +HEALING TALENT. That’s the same number of healing talents a warrior has.
If you want to beg about sustain talents, that’s only 20 points, which leaves 31 for any other spec. The rest of the holy tree are just minor QoL talents that at best give an expensive heal that isn’t worth 31 points to get, and +5 crit which you can get from gear, buffs, and consumables.
So any spec Paladin with healing gear can fill that role. So why bring a holy Paladin? They can’t dps or offtank at all compared to the other two talent trees.
Neither are offtank warriors. You’re acting like a few raid runs will result in an entire fully equipped tiered raid group. Most of your raid will be wearing clown suits through Naxx, even for their main roles.
And holy Paladins rely on offtiered items for most of their healing gear as gear can often be better than t1 if all your doing is spamming heals.
So it’s pretty clear you don’t have a clue.
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If your raid is taking 3 times as long to clear content as 1 without hybrids, then your pure dps classes are afking. By bringing a pure over a hybrid, you only increase raid dps by something like 1-2%.
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No, that’s just how little DPS hybrids are capable of.
That’s the overall DPS for the entire raid increasing by 1-2% per pure over hybrid.
Do you realize how much significantly more DPS a pure has to be doing than a hybrid to get a 1-2% increase in raid DPS in a 40 man raid from just one person?
No, that’s for the entire raid not per player. Even on the extreme end it’s 5% or less increase to the entire raid by bringing 1 pure over 1 hybrid.
Hybrids can do more than enough damage to meet the minimum raid dps for bosses in vanilla. The only way your raid isn’t meeting the raid dps needed, that means that MULTIPLE people are doing below the minimum threshold. You cannot blame that on 1 person.
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If you think swapping out all hybrid players for all pures is only a 1-2% DPS increase for the entire raid, you’re sorely mistaken.
So it is per player? You’re not making any sense.
You’re saying that swapping ONE hybrid for ONE pure increases the collective raid DPS by 1-2%. That means the amount of DPS a pure is doing over a hybrid is WAY more than the hybrid.
So imagine how much more DPS the raid will do as a whole if you don’t bring ANY hybrid DPS.
So what? They could do even more as a pure DPS.
It’s not about failing to clear the content. As you recall, my original comment was:
That comment still leaves open the possibility of hybrids being able to clear content; they simply cannot do it as quickly or as easily. That is objectively true, because they objectively do less damage and mitigate damage less effectively.
Hybrid DPS are like the people who “run” a mile in 50 minutes. Yes, you ran a mile, but people can do it much faster than that, and if you need someone who can run, you don’t take the guy who clocked in just under an hour.
Similarly, if you need someone to do a lot of damage every second, you take the guy who can do more, not the guy who only does enough to meet the minimum dps requirement.
1.12 is a nerfed version. This hurts people’s feelings but that doesnt change the fact it is.
So just so I know we’re all on the same page here…
Everyone is aware that I am not at all talking about min/maxing, optimization, raid compositions, or anything of the sort, yes?
We clear?
Anyway, to quote Preach’s “Legacy of the Priest” video where he talks about shadow in raids:
“Shadow was really good…for about a minute and then they ran out of mana really bad. Now I played with one of the world’s best shadow priests in my guild and it was a joke. He was kind of the butt of all the jokes. He knew what he was doing. He knew when to stop casting spells and just Mind Flay and hope for the best. But I’m just pre-warning you guys, shadow in Classic: dogsh*t. For raiding. Really bad. It was.”
Down ranking as a dps caster is counter productive and self sabotaging. If you have to downrank in the first place just to not go oom, you’re doing crap damage. Play the role you were intended to play instead
Sure, he was an amazing player for his size, but you’re not going to win anything when half your team is 5’4’’
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People who want to be competitive in raiding will spec accordingly. We’ve had guides made by the best for over a decade now that will show people the way.
The min-maxxing is all that matters kind of attitude is what got us into this mess of a game we have now. We went from having unique classes with tons of different possible builds to even completely different classes being able to do the same things.
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So don’t bring half a raid of the less viable specs. You could still bring say 5-7 of them though and do just fine.
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Yeah, that’s specifically why I said downranking comes at a considerable dps penality
There is a whole lot more to increasing healing output than something that says +healing.
Your argument, if made by someone who had never played an mmorpg in their life and looked at a healers talents, is one thing. But if thats the best you can do, Im not interested.
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Threads like this are what get the specs ruined again. Keep your cookie cutter nonsense to yourself.
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Not sure about the others, but the only paladin class set focused specifically on healing is T3. The rest are built around the original intention for the class to be a supportive melee fighter, but due to oversights making playing it as a priest easier+more efficient, that playstyle didn’t manifest all that much.
I really see T3 more as Blizzard just caving into players doing what was easiest. “Fine, you want to play paladins like a priest instead of how we intended, well here you go.”
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I don’t know who you’re referring to, but you can raid with whatever spec you want. It’s not impossible. You’ll just struggle to find a raid slot to do so. It’s also possible to raid with no talent points. Again, good luck getting a slot though.
Even if we count all the talents that may apply, it’s not a big issue.
The holy tree has
- Divine Intellect (10% int for 5 points) Which any paladin can easily grab and all it adds is a small amount of mana and crit (<300 mana for pre-raid BiS)
- Spiritual Focus (70% pushback resist for 5 points) which, again, any paladin can easily get and only matters if you’re getting hit.
- Healing light (12% +healing for 3 points) which is kinda easy to get but can be replaced by stats on gear.
- Illumination (mana return on crit heals) which only helps with longevity and depends on having a decent crit rating
- Divine Favor (makes your next heal a crit heal) which is only really useful when paired with holy shock for an instant emergency heal
- Holy Power (5% crit for 5 talent points) which is nice to have but the point investment isn’t that great and also can just be replaced by gear.
- Holy Shock (instant heal) which costs almost double the amount of a flash heal but heals for the same amount
I don’t include Imp BoW because another paladin can bring that. Nor do I include Imp LoH because it drains all of your mana so it’s not viable for sustainability.
Now if you compare that to the other 3 healers who all have much more talents which contribute in any way to their healing that are deep in their trees and have more of an effect than the paladin talents(even balance druids have deep talents that help healing).
My plan so far is to pick the most robotic, cookie cutter spec I can find for my class so I can get accepted into raid content.
One day when that character is geared out in everything he can possibly get from Naxx and below, then I feel like I can relax and finally experiment and have fun with my class.