Let the rets live in the delusion they will be dpsing in Naxx, they are in for a rude awakening.
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If you’re not in a healing spec or tanking spec “aka sword and board” you will be hard pressed to gear up if you want to seriously raid. I’m not saying there aren’t guilds out there that won’t accept you, I’m just saying pure specs aren’t gonna be happy sharing “their” gear with you. You’ll be low man on the totem pole gearing up if you’re not in a purebred spec.
Nah it’s more like wearing cleats onto a wooden basketball court, not only is it not ideal foot wear for you but you also mess up the court for everyone else.
So sure you want to do that on your own private court go right ahead, you want to do that at the Y expect to get thrown out.
It is elitist virtue signaling.
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At the end of the day, here’s the thing that makes the most sense.
Everyone knows that the bleeding edge hardcore guilds are going to only take the best class make up the best specs the best gear the best consumables all that nonsense. They are world first bleeding edge guilds…that’s kind of their schtick.
Most of the every day raiding guilds who do it because getting loot with your friends is fun, they aren’t going to be that hardcore about it. The way I look at it is that each raid boss has certain metrics that need to be met in order to kill it. i.e. so much healing, so much damage mitigation and threat generation for the tanks, and so much dps from the dps (and also not being dumb and standing in fires and bombs and such). So the way to look at it is this, if you can meet the dps requirements with your offspec or whatever, then you’re good with me because you may provide some utility that another class doesn’t (but you are still held to the dps metric that has to be met to kill the boss don’t forget that). Likewise if you can tank the hits effectively enough and can have the heal throughput that is needed, then you’re fine with whatever spec you bring.
But there is nothing wrong with playing the way you want to play. so all the hate for the min/maxers and all that is just as stupid as the hate for people who want to try something different to see if they can make it work.
Lol @ the “human nature” fools who swallowed the “survival of the fittest” propaganda and are applying it to playing a fun video game. Humans have survived entirely due to caring for one another, even the sick and elderly who ““contribute”” nothing, there’s plenty of evidence for that. Use info that isn’t predicated on lies if you actually wanna convince people.
As for me, I’m eager to see how Spelladin pans out and otherwise plan to main either a druid tank or resto sham, and maybe a moonkin on the side just to try it out. I’m not stressing over other people’s entertainment
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Muggsy. Bogues.
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Maybe I’ll raid as a ret paladin just to spite you.
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Sure man spelladin your way to that UBRS farm quota. Your delusion that people will care for you in this game is big lols. People willing be LESS forgiving of you in wow than they would even IrL, as this is not reality and allows people to act without the standards of everyday life outside of wow.
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Not claiming all people will somehow care for me, just that the “human nature” rubbish up thread is dead wrong. I’ll play what I play, and if that means a lower pool of available groups (which won’t usually be the case for me because again, aspiring druid tank and resto sham main, spelladin and moonkin are just curiosities) then so be it.
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Proof of wrong? Because otherwise opinion
Shanidar 1, not bothering any further mainly because it’s getting off topic
That’s exactly right. The whole point of defining dps thresholds was to be MORE ACCEPTING of hybrid dps builds, not to exclude them from raiding.
It’s a way of saying, “if you want to raid dps, you need to put out this much dps no matter what spec you are”…
This means if someone wants to dps as feral or shadow and will do the tryhard necessary to hit the threshold, then they are golden and have, more importantly, immunized themselves from pure dps specs who might otherwise criticize them.
If someone wants to faceroll raiding as dps, then they can play a pure dps spec and basically not worry about the threshold because they’ll exceed it with one-button spam.
Yes I know of shanidar 1, wether or not you are a serf or hunter or king, you can still be cared for. This doesn’t change their role in standing so it’s mute point
If boss dies, and everyone has fun, where is the problem? I hope we can get away from this mentality that optimized spec > what I enjoy playing.
We’re spoiled by damage meters… and focus too much on individualism. Hopefully, the culture will take a journey through time as well into classic. Where we had real communities and interactions.
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Many of the min/max crowd will bring up the point that when (not if, when) you don’t down the boss, all fingers will be pointing at the hybrids claiming their DPS alone is bringing down the raid.
Which is patently false, if a hybrid needs to swap to healing gear for a boss fight because there isn’t enough healing… that’s an option that is completely unavailable to raid that already has all hybrids healing.
Damage meters are a problem because they never tell the whole story. For example anything that doesn’t show up on meters or isn’t listed under a toons name is seen as superfluous.
All aura buffs, most totems, blessings, buffs in general etc. None of these can be properly tracked to show exactly how much they contributed.
A hybrid who stopped dps to heal either themselves or someone else because they were about to die is going to show up worse on meters than one who tunnels the boss and ignores everything else.
Raid logs are a tiny bit better, but even they have limitations.
The biggest issue with this entire thread is simple, people keep acting like spec = job. A paladin/shaman/druid/priest with 0 talents spent in their healing tree can always swap to healing gear and heal when needed. It’s not optimal but it happened a lot more than anyone really knows.
Ret was one of if not the most common raiding specs pre-1.9 because full holy was a melee/spell DPS hybrid at the time. It only had a few points at the beginning that helped healing, even now in 1.12 very little of the tree actually improves healing, mostly it focuses on improving longevity. If you aren’t running oom who cares?
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And buffs/debuffs that get refreshed by other classes (ignite mages) don’t always give appropriate credit either.
10 Balance Druids! I mean, even outside of other debuffs only 6 can apply both Insect Swarm AND Moonfire.
That will be a fun discussion to have determining who can do what ![:joy:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
How much fun would it be for your tank to show up with a bad spec and gear where they can’t generate enough threat and die too easily.
Same thing with people who want to YOLO spec and get carried regardless of their contribution.
All that group has to do is hit a brick wall in their progress and the people doing all the work will flip out. That is how thousands of casual guilds self destructed.
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People who play the optimal spec with optimal gear are just choosing the easy way.
Then they go on to say how hardcore they are.
Beat the hardest raids with janky broken builds, then I will be impressed.
Doing the same thing over and over to get a new piece of gear to do the same thing over 15 seconds faster is insane to me.
I’m going to play what I want, if you don’t want to play with me then no problem. Just from that type of attitude I wouldn’t enjoy playing with you either.
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