Teldrassil is inescapable

Lore Story Forum
738

The point among other things also that the “culmination” for such story should’ve been as impactful as the start, otherwise the story just won’t usually work.

As is, there are no stakes, there is no cause-effect in the story, it goes wherever convenient for the devs.

Epitome of silliness in Shadowlands where the player have to help in a few places with “revenge”, but for the victims of the situation there is “revenge is bad”.

So, IMO for the story to have any meaning, there should be clarity and consistency.

Ok, the theme is “revenge bad”. Fine, let’s assume that such theme is good to reinforce the concept of factions and works to improve the narrative and gameplay.

That would mean, that consistently “revenge” would be shown to do more harm that good. When Xandria talks about revenge against malldraxi, that should then lead to creating even more problems instead of fixing things. When furngrets try their “revenge” stuff, to only show how futile that is.

And a cherry on top, would be if the horde really seriously loses, and it turns out, that reason for that are those scarlets who were forces to turn into undead. So the story would be like “because you did not forgive Scarlets, you doomed us all”.

And it would at least be a start. As is it’s worthless, has no singular direction, etc.

When it comes to making the players able to affect the outcome of the events on such scale - would be interesting, but not sure how would it work with the current faction imbalance. I guess that would mean that every game played in PvP tournaments with alliance races would count toward it too.

Yeah, sure, try better.

obligatory [Azmongold language warning]

Not interested in supporting a :poop: narrative direction. We’ll see how the devs react. If they decide to stick to their nonsense - I do not mind of they crash and burn as a company.

If you like the story - feel free to financially support it.

gl hf

1 Like
739

I mean, when it comes to PVP - the massive narrative swings on a faction level are themselves the problem. What’s critical in that arena is that people feel like they have an equal chance and that they can win - which means that any pretense of relatedness (the feeling that your actions matter to the world around you - one of three key factors explaining video game satisfaction) can only go so far. No, you probably can’t have a PVP scene where imbalances are allowed to get so great that the other side just doesn’t want to play anymore - as such, people complaining that Warsong Gulch never decided a battle in lore are (probably intentionally) missing the point.

However, large swings in the lore communicate information about their participants, which in turn informs willingness to play them. For the Night Elves, what once was a respected and feared choice no longer is due to years of unavoidable, unfavorable treatment that Blizzard heaped on to Night Elves in order to prop up the Horde and the Humans. Accordingly, I don’t feel good about playing a Night Elf anymore as a PVP option. I have friends who won’t play for the same reason. I’ve encountered no shortage of people who have either quit or rerolled Horde because of this issue, and I don’t see it going away without a significant return to form.

But again, the other side wants to block that, while simultaneously complaining that no one wants to PVP with them anymore.

2 Likes
740

Not one single battle or character death was ever attributed to player decision

All horde characters the alliance killed were killed in the story and not allowed to ‘fight back’ whatever that means

Literally have no idea what you are talking about

741

Everything have to happen first time.

Quantity does not equal quality.

Even though in many aspects I do not agree with Asmongold, I think he is spot on with describing the current state of blizzard as

“to solve the problems that the players do not have, they use solutions that the players do not want”.

Yes, Nathanos was killed. Although he might reappear in the future making the argument void. But, IMO there would be way cooler depiction of the night warrior if instead Tyrande would be shown dealing with the mawsworn, so there would be contrast between other leaders being unable, yet Tyrande accomplishing something.

Which means Nathanos could’ve been “donated” to the horde. After all the alliance got Sira (at least in the book), and could make a few steps to deal with the undead elves. (Bonus points if Calia would also follow them to the alliance territory).

Would my idea of keeping Nathanos in the horde alongside other loyalists hurt the story? Don’t think so. He’s not strong enough as a showcase of power, offered no vital information anyway, and would be treated no better by the horde, than by the alliance. At least there would be a chance that “in memory of Sylvanas” (could not think of better phrase at the moment) he could contribute to actually doing useful stuff :man_shrugging:

But it’s just my perspective.

literally the alliance going back to its roots of “dispence indescriminate justice” as the main theme. Not necessary to start the war immediately, but to be sure to stay vocal about who fought for Sylvanas post-tree, as well as being stuck totally with promoted before anti-Sylvanas tone.

IMO widely speculated Sylvanas vs. Tyrande as “avatar” of the Jailer vs. that of Elune for the culminating point of the story arc.

gl hf

742

Just to add to that. This is probably why TLOU2 was controversial.

The whole game was this brutal depressing experience to drive home the message that revenge is bad? And the whole unlikable new cast of characters didn’t help either with the main story cut into pieces to drive the main message home.

743

You are literally that nelf posting on a horde toon you aren’t fooling anyone karen

744

To add further I guess… this isn’t complicated. I’m not sure why anyone thinks it is.

If you set something up for a player to strive for, but then yank it away saying “actually, that thing is bad, and you’re a bad person for wanting it”, how do you think people are going to take it?

1 Like
745

Because you are acting like a spoiled child that demands everything be the way she wants or else it’s ‘bad marketing’

Well guess what bud you don’t get everything you want

I didn’t want garrosh to be become racist

He did just like people do irl

You didn’t want your city to be bombed just like happens irl get over it

No one wants their city bombed

You think the allies in ww2 said ‘hey cmon guys let us fight back fair’ when they were being bombed? Nope so stop acting like this it’s embarrassing

How can you possibly be this entitled

746

They were pretty deceptive with their marketing, like, showing Joel in the trailer when in the game in that scene he was not present.

Also, rather manipulative in places, like the dog interactions. As if the game says “no, you must feel that way”.

Nah, I mentioned long ago that because of the queues on Kazzak during the launch I dropped the horde character halfway though and now play mostly draenei mage. Same name as this character. All of them.

Nope, I was asked about discords I visit and characters I play before. Never intended to hide it.

Sometimes being “karen” is the most optimal solution.

Not a question to me, but to me what blizz did is something inexcusable. To me. Others might be happy about such actions, so, I do not mind if people vote with their wallet and support the game.

This is, that the premise of the tree™ story was the theme of justice. And then it was sidelined. And then it was moved away from. And now supposedly it should be abandoned.

Which is a misleading advertisement, and for me personally, that is one of grave sins when it comes to software, including entertainment stuff.

The end of my motivations. I am unhappy with the devs selling the game elements as one thing, and then twisting the stuff for the sake of narrative convenience. Be it elves and “justice”, or the horde W3 concept and the faction being just fine with fighting for Sylvanas after the tree™ story, or the loyalists and how their story line was handled in BfA (at least a big chunk of those who I’ve met were very unhappy and such treatment).

I mean, never say never, I’ve met some twisted personalities in my life who would not mind the world burn because why not.

You negotiate with the product developer. And act accordingly. For me currently it’s just chatting with people, trying to push focus towards the narrators from bashing each other, and chatting about ideas in case we get some usable changes.

No, they did fought back, and ended up the way it ended. Including all the stuff like reparations, etc. Odd comparison with the game. A proper one would be if by the end, during the tribunal, the verdict would be that victims are obligated to forgive those who assaulted them.

gl hf

1 Like
747

All I can say is you don’t get what you want and I’m glad your city burned down

We would do it again if we could

748

You’re correct. They did this.

However, Bomber Harris didn’t have Blizzard holding him back. Blizzard unfortunately does have that rather childish delusion - which is where we’re stuck.

It would be one thing if there was a gameplay remedy for this problem. There is not, and you would block one if the suggestion for one surfaced.

749

I mean, I don’t mind if the horde gets to burn some sities, and the alliance does the same. Sometimes one side gets control over more territories, sometimes another. That would’ve been fine.

Seeing the story that goes against what was advertised is not fine to me. If you’re ok when you are lied to, let’s just agree to disagree.

gl hf

750

It’s never enough for you alliance players. Literally killed the 2nd favorite horde character and you still complain

Literally got one of the coolest cinematics ever of malfurion

I’m so glad that the customer is always right mentality died a long time ago because people like you lol

Nothing is ever good enough

751

I already explained to you what was good enough.

First you mocked how small of a request it was, then when it helped your argument you pivoted and said it was too much.

I’m not the one with elastic standards here. Nor am I the one demanding that an entire race stay constructively dead to make me feel better.

That would be you.

1 Like
752

Ya u aren’t happy with all the awesome things you were given and want some crazy rp zone

It’s honestly crazy u people exist

753

I’m sorry that I don’t find the reclamation of one zone to compensate for the loss of three, and that I don’t find Nathanos’s death to make up for the Horde’s onscreen party in the War of the Thorns.

But I’m not sure who honestly would.

754

It’s not the alliance I voted for.

But honestly, if I am given what is not needed, all I can say is that it does more harm than good. Getting rid of the king just because then needed Talanji to be in the role is “meh” to me, a waste of interesting character.

Not to mention that Anduin not once trying to negotiate with Talanji or the king himself felt rather out of character too.

You mean Nathanos? I guess we’ll see where this story goes. Would be funny to meet him again and such. Still I would say, that was a borderline waste of time and a character development.

If that would’ve been the culmination of the story, that might’ve worked decently. As is - meh.

Being anti-consumer is not a new thing, I see people even trying to defend loot boxes. Just agree to disagree.

In the last 8 months I was visiting WoW-related forums, etc., I’d say that requirements of the players are actually rather modest. Imcompatible with the dev direction though.

Because, for example, the players (vocal) largely want continuity to the top priority, but the dev team is fine with their approach and for them story parts are “flexible”.

I totally see people happy about BfA and supporting the direction of this expansion. As well as continuing overwhelming support of the Shadowlands release days.
:+1: (/s)

gl hf

755

Well I’m sorry you constantly are the victim and want some crazy rp experience just for you

Sorry all the major victories you got weren’t good enough for you

Sorry me, an all horde player, thinks your faction is cooler than you do

This all you want a pity party or a crazy rp zone built just do you

Are you honestly a real person

756

Nah, I want the Night Elves to be worth playing again.

My earlier suggestion would get things there. I’m not sure why you have an issue with that - especially when you’ve earlier (and correctly) noted that there is a community-wide issue with Alliance interest in PVP.

757

It’s because of people like you

Horde players talk about it all the time

The constant whining and Victim mentality so many of you have is why we can’t play alliance

It’s really sad tbh watching you do this