One single sunreaver as a result of the purge. An event you heavily defended above despite my, frankly, incredibly transparent mockery of your arguments.
Which again happened long after Dalaran’s worst crime against the blood elves.
You’re very into collective punishment are you?
Genuinely, truly horrific that you would ever think someone threatening to sexually assault a child could be validated, especially over a video game argument.
Baine wasnt in charge. When Cairne wanted to go against Garrosh after Wrath, Thrall told him “you aren’t in charge”. Baine was either not privvy to the greater strategy or didn’t care. And thats not even what I was referencing. I was referring to Baine screwing around with his secret defections while the Alliance marched right past Mulgore.
Anduin was in charge. Anduin didn’t violate orders or sabotage alliance strategy (Yet). Supporting my original point, Anduin’s unpopular strategy and decisions were loyally followed by the racial leaders who expressed dissatisfaction with those decisions. Tyrande didnt sneak behind Anduin’s back and sabotage peace. She told him that she and hers would be going after Sylvanas and anyone who stood between them (and the horde officially stepped aside). She didnt challenge Anduin to Mok’gora.
It’s not my fault he’s obsessed with trying to attack Jaina. She’s certainly run her gambit of guilt already.
Do you not understand english at all?
I feel like I’m arguing with a Markov chain.
Also Jaina isn’t TFT-era Dalaran in any way shape or form. And one single Sunreaver acting about something that happened in the last 5 years has nothing to do with the much, much worse thing they did 15 years ago.
But Valko you have different opinions on Night Elves 
So. Am I being accused of threatening IRL or what?
The tyrants were, correct. Who he has systematically acted against each time.
???
I guess if their strategy was to win the war, he would have lost, this argument you’re making is ridiculous, because you’re trying to somehow imbalance Baine from Anduin, because you want to feel victimized more then the Night Elves do. Baine doing something for the Alliance makes him as much a traitor as Anduin doing something for the Horde. One does a great deal more for the other then you’re trying to let on, and I have presented why that’s difficult for you to understand.
Yeah, and Jaina isn’t even allowed to be mad about Theramore after the fact. Nothing happens because of Theramore from Jaina. Meanwhile the Sunreaver is holding down the fort with Baine, gripped in his hatred.
Jeez at your editing.
Well, your glorious leader Kael’thas is up and talking again, so I’m sure you’ll get to chide the naughty Alliance for it. Your dreams come true.
Your inability to read a piece of media is truly staggering if you think the Sylvanas loyalists are presented as the heroes in that scenario, or if you believe Jaina has actually dealt with a single personal consequence other than briefly losing her seat on the council of 6. Tell me when was Jaina even villain-batted? Her leaving in a huff in the Legion intro was literally reframed as taking time off for self-reflection lmao
In the Baine rescue scenario I just mentioned? Is anyone home to help you interpret English?
I dont want to feel victimized and I don’t. At least not as a proxy for my characters. I am disappointed in the poor conservatorship of Blizzard over this world they inherited and that I love.
I’d say this is the pot calling the kettle black but in your case this is more the pot calling a pane of glass black.
The characters who are framed as heroic in the Baine rescue scenario aren’t the magister or the dark rangers and that you can’t see this mostly tells everything about you and why nobody should ever take your arguments seriously.
You need to atleast understand that a dissatisfaction with Baine, and the reasons you have this dissatisfaction are trivial to the people who dislike their own faction leader for the same reasons. I can enjoy both for the very same reasons I’m claiming to dislike Anduin, because I can hold multiple expectations. The dislike of Baine would be much more easy to swallow if he were just more present in this regard though. Anduin permeates the entirety of Alliance lore, and he’s basically our faction leader that doesn’t care as much about us, as the other faction.
So you’re saying that the magister in the Baine rescue scenario is gripped unfairly in his hatred of Jaina over the Purge, and that he’s entirely wrong for having this position?
I’m saying the scene doesn’t frame his actions as heroic.
I’m saying that you can’t read a text to save your life
And I’m saying that he’s framed as being largely unreasonable for what he’s doing, whether the hatred is deserved or not.
Maybe try to reformulate your questions in a way that’s less obviously leading
Being angry at people upset at the quality of the product is certainly an interesting concept. Oh well, gl with that. I’ll consider it to be “agree to disagree” case.
What fits and what not - also has an element of personal choice in the interpretation.
For example, what currently happens with the game in general is easy to explain as sabotage. It’s not so bad that it would immediately attract the attention of shareholders, yet bad enough to consistently bleed the player numbers.
Does it mean that the fact that this idea fits the situation, that it is indeed the case and the devs’ goal is to make a product as bad as possible - IMO definitely not.
I’d say, that a big part of what could be accomplished is to shift the way people look at the state of the game.
For now, if you take a look at the publicly avaliable materials from people who are openly criticizing the game, be it Preach, Asmongold, Bellular, to name a few, they do talk about gameplay, marketing, cash shop, community interactions. But in all of that somehow the narrative teams gets a free pass.
They seems to be treated above criticism, “it’s their story to tell”, and so on. So, one of positive things to the game would be to push the situation to the state where instead people would acknowledge that in fact the narrative team is a big contibutor to making the game worse.
I am well aware, that when WoD showed a story that orcs actually never had an excuse of “fel made us do it” because suddenly they’re happy to commit atrocities for a promise of some vague stuff, the complains of orcs were shrugged away.
I am well aware that with the whole “Wrathgate is on Sylvanas order” or where the story was taken after the stated Before the Storm Motivations, the forsaken / horde community in general was also shrugged off, because why bother - story is above criticism, it’s “their” story to tell (even though I have no idea how many people work on story now, from early 2000s, so the current team is as much of a “guests” category as we are).
And among all of that, when every other community is shrugged off, there is only one that might have a chance to move from the “rock star” approach to actually paying attention to the community and what people are willing to support, financially among other things. The situation has a chance to be the first real possibility to improve things on that front.
(sure, the possible options are guarantee of failure or a chance for success, but the fact that changes of the narrative, and people making calls on where the story should go, could be something worse, is not a reason to keep the situation as is)
A couple references (optional):
gl hf
My gripe is more that I was called an abuser and accused of lying about an issue that is important to me but sure whatever you say
Then this is what you said.
This was said after, and you got the answer you were desperate for. The same one that I guess was supposed to be unhinged from the beginning? It’s pretty unclear on why you’re even repeating the question, if you find it to be redundant.
Dial it back to WC2, and the Orcs can start off the apology chain that makes it up to Jaina.
Don’t worry, the Night Elves are already apologizing for their own genocide by the Horde, so they won’t have to participate in the chain for that one.
You are missing the point. I was making a scorecard on how hard the horde (whom you seem to think came out of the 4th war on top) got screwed in BfA. Evil leader, deposed by two traitors and a human king… again. But this time, all significant footholds in the eastern kingdoms, lost. The barrens, effectively lost. Horde agency, a thing of the past.
The only way to make the horde effective as a faction again is for them to regain a foothold in the EK (no… Silvermoon aint it) which would be a slap in the face for alliance fans who just won the 4th war. Horde fans cannot have any faction pride.
Even players who like Sylvanas, are faced with the reality that Saurfang and Baine sided with the Alliance over her. Players who hate Sylvanas were saddled with the consequences of her strategy. Players who saw their characters as warsong outriders, or defilers, or frostwolves… that is effectively moot. Those territories are no longer contested. Horde fantasy burned up following the war of thorns. Sorry about the tree, I guess.