TBC Shaman Tank Talents

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

@Bonerover-stormreaver

No one is talking about druid tanks…

You said I had no idea how threat works.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

You don’t understand what a high threat generating spell does do you?

Don’t blame me because you want to fly off the handle arguing I don’t understand things I clearly do.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

How would a 20% cooldown reduction not help a class that has limited threat generating abilities in the first place? You contradict yourself.

I never said it wouldn’t help, I said points could be better placed since autos are going to do more of your overall threat than Frost Shock will. Learn to read more carefully. Getting a significant boost to a weak portion of your kit doesn’t mean you got very much for your investment.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

If you’re alive and everyone else dies because you can’t hold threat what now?

DPS can always hold off on DPS, so no.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Healers going oom because dps has to wait too much?

This is dependent upon more than just your TPS output as it includes your actual DPS output, the DPS of your party members, and the DTPS you and your party are taking. You’ll make your Healer have substantially more efficient Healing by not giving them a heart attack every pull than adding nominal TPS gains.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Threat gen is very important.

It is, but it is also a foregone conclusion for real Tanks. Druids can gear for exclusive Stamina, Health, Armor, and Avoidance and hold off max DPS Warlocks, as can Paladins and Warriors. Regardless, if threat is a problem, the first thing to do is to have DPS slow down rather than risk instant death. The other Tanks don’t have to worry about gib deaths. Shaman do.

You can’t hold aggro if you die suddenly. Survival trumps everything else, and only once you can reasonably survive do you get the luxury of pumping out increased TPS/DPS.

You’ve clearly never Tanked anything difficult.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

What do you cast. Tell me. Please.

I already said you dimwit, you cast one Frost Shock as mobs move in after you Chain Lightning, assuming it isn’t off CD. Shocks don’t have long range and mobs in dungeons don’t move slowly. Seriously… try reading next time.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Now you’re just being slow again. Did you forget about your melee attacks? What about the chain lightning on pull? Other tanks struggle to get aggro on larger packs as well. Unless you think warriors can hold threat with tclap…

A Warrior using Cleave/Thunderclap will have vastly superior AoE threat generation to a lone Chain Lightning and a tab-target Shaman with shocks and autos, and Warriors are the weakest of the AoE bunch.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Plus WF is probably better than RB bruh. Even at threat gen considering flurry procs and what not.

WF offers AP and extra hits but no extra threat.
RB offers AP and extra threat.

WF will certainly deal more DPS, but dealing more threat is up for debate.

And you keep saying this:

@Bonerover-stormreaver

You forget about melee attacks…

I haven’t forgotten them at all, as I’ve specifically noted them more than once.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Shaman have Frost Shock and Rockbiter Weapon-empowered autoattacks for anything that does threat beyond base damage.

So I would try reading instead of whatever nonsense crusade you’re on here.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

If a Shaman tanks Illidan when Classic TBC is done

So at level 80 in Wrath of the Lich King? Is this the new standard of success for Shaman “tanks”? Doing prior expansion content with a raid team?

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

@Fasciae-fairbanks

You said I had no idea how threat works.

You clearly don’t if you think shocks aren’t important to a shamans threat generation. But someone has repressed feelings apparently about people dissing druid tanking

@Fasciae-fairbanks

I said points could be better placed since autos are going to do more of your overall threat than Frost Shock will

Where then? 3 points to 15% increase to lightning shield? Which you haven’t mentioned much lately in threat discussion? Reverberation is decent in comparison to what’s on the table. Consider you also want to get Elemental Devastation so you need to spend them in Elemental tree. So where do you put them?

@Fasciae-fairbanks

DPS can always hold off on DPS

False again. Built in enrage timers, healers mana pools. You have to dps at a certain point.

You rant about a class you know little about. The rest of your post is a headache trying to understand. But I did see the insults in there so I reported your post.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

@Bonerover-stormreaver

You clearly don’t if you think shocks aren’t important to a shamans threat generation.

I said they would be a small portion of your kit and you couldn’t really empower them much. Not sure why you can’t read clearly but it is quite the problem…

@Bonerover-stormreaver

3 points to 15% increase to lightning shield?

Potentially yes, or utility so your party actually does better overall despite your weaknesses as a “tank”

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Consider you also want to get Elemental Devastation so you need to spend them in Elemental tree.

Elemental Devastation is a trash tier talent without the support caster stats, and you need a lot of support. I already showed that several posts ago. If you’re sinking points into Elemental to get to that talent then you have zero business trying to squeeze out maximum utility and power in a Shaman attempting to Tank anything.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Built in enrage timers, healers mana pools. You have to dps at a certain point.

Since Shaman aren’t even remotely capable of Tanking anything that has an Enrage timer of significance, and Healer mana mostly suffers from spamming inefficient heals on Shaman that take too much damage, more threat isn’t the answer.

Again, you have no idea how any of this works.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

The rest of your post is a headache trying to understand.

Glad you admit to your reading comprehension issues.

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

@Fasciae-fairbanks

small portion

You. Don’t. Know. Shamans. Stop. Talking. Bout. Them.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Potentially yes

Rofl. Stick to druid.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Elemental Devastation is a trash tier talent without the support caster stats

ROFL STICK TO DRUID

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Since Shaman aren’t even remotely capable of Tanking

Negative nancy now. Why are you on this thread if all you do is hate? Are you that spiteful?

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Glad you admit to your reading comprehension issues.

No. You’re exhausting.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

@Bonerover-stormreaver

You. Don’t. Know. Shamans. Stop. Talking. Bout. Them.

I do, but by all means, show your work.

Show a working spreadsheet that tells us how much more threat a single point of Spell Power adds to the Shaman rotation, as well as Spell Crit, Spell Hit, Attack Power, etc.

Prove it, or go away. I’ve done more than my fair share of math-based refutation in this thread so it is time to pony up.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Why are you on this thread

Because there is a small but very annoyingly vocal minority of people that seem to think Shaman can be real Tanks, and insist on using more emotional rhetoric than anything resembling sound advice or guidance. That group has the capacity to mislead less than savvy players and I have an aversion to frauds spreading misinformation.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

ROFL STICK TO DRUID

@Fasciae-fairbanks

https://seventyupgrades.com/set/5u4wnp64GPk4cj6FsB4itz

A Shaman in Phase 1 available EH gear is going to have 4.44% Spell Crit before buffs, and absolutely no Spell Hit unless they’re a Draenei. So that’s an 83% chance to even land your Frost Shock, with only 4.44% of those spells that land being Criticals.

So you’ll need an average of ~27 spell casts to land a critical hit, or in terms of Frost Shock’s CD, 135 sec. In other words, your Elemental Devastation uptime will be approximately 7.4%. Which means you aimed three talent points in order to get an average increase of 0.666% Physical Critical Strike Chance, or roughly 14.7 Crit Rating, or less than 5 Crit Rating per talent point.

That’s not a good use of your talents at all.

Refute it or shut up.

[Anncilla-illidan]

Save yourself some time man. If these morons want to drag people in a dungeon to wipe for hours let them.

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Show a working spreadsheet that tells us how much more threat a single point of Spell Power adds to the Shaman rotation, as well as Spell Crit, Spell Hit, Attack Power, etc.

I’m not doing squat for you.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

so it is time to pony up

Ironic. You still won’t take any sort of bet that a Shaman won’t tank Illidan?

@Fasciae-fairbanks

and insist on using more emotional rhetoric

You ranted about Druids multiple times. I think if anyones emotionally charged it’s the Druid in a Shaman tanking discussion.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Refute it or shut up.

Reported again. Learn to be an adult.

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

@Anncilla-illidan

If these morons want to drag people in a dungeon to wipe for hours let them.

Nother negative nancy.

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

Shaman Tank Karazhan (TBC)

Great video… that shaman looks to be in Season 1 gear too if not mistaken.

[Profits-mankrik]

Nah, you’ll get 2shot by crits/crushings and won’t be able to hold threat very well.

Shaman tanks work in vanilla 5mans because they’re not very difficult. TBC heroics are an order of magnitude harder than vanilla 5mans.

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

Watch the video right above your comment please.

Shaman hardly takes any damage at all.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Prove it, or go away.

Please watch the video referenced. Or does this mean you’re going away now?

[Jedai-mankrik]

He is wearing season 3 gear minus the shoulders, which is basically t6 equivalent. Furthermore looks like he has 3 healers on him, which is overkill when players are in t6 gear at this point. Finally, the dps are purposefully holding back excessively so that they don’t rip aggro from the shaman. This is painfully apparent when you look at average clear times of prince in t6 gear compared to how long this kill took.

This isn’t tanking. This is glorified babysitting to allow a shaman to feel like a special snowflake

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

You’re right about the gear. And I’ve never argued that they would be good tanks, quite the opposite actually. They do have some viability to them and can accomplish tanking duties.

The fun thing about games is not everything has to be efficient!

Any shaman tanking guide will point out the #1 thing you’ll need is a willing group. That’s it. Gear is a symptom of earning that trust.

[Jedai-mankrik]

What is the point of pretending to tank when you need to outgear the instance by two tiers, need two extra healers and for dps to purposefully hold back excessively so you can play pretend?

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

@Jedai-mankrik

so you can play pretend?

You do realize you’re playing World of Warcraft right?

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

@Bonerover-stormreaver

I’m not doing squat for you.

So that’s a no then? You can’t actually prove anything? Do you even have a rough estimate of what percentage of your threat would be Frost Shock? Autos? Lightning Shield?

Well done.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Ironic. You still won’t take any sort of bet that a Shaman won’t tank Illidan?

I don’t make deals with people I don’t trust, let alone deals that fall within the statute of frauds.

Oh and if you can’t show you even understand the basics of the class you claim to be championing, like whether or not a SP weapon or a high DPS physical weapon is better and why, then you’re just here to be contrarian in the name of fighting the dreaded meta. LOL

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Great video… that shaman looks to be in Season 1 gear too if not mistaken.

The Shaman is wearing Arena S3 gear, that bright red helmet is the Gladiator recolor of Tier 6. How do you fail to even recognize gear? Also I love how the video slow zooms on the Shaman so you can’t see any of the combat log and yet he’s getting critical hits of 5k and then you can’t even see anything going on at all as Prince changes target more than once.

Then on Nightbane he just straight up loses aggro while Nightbane runs around attacking people and 4 people die. LOL

Finally, this was uploaded in Sept of 2008, which is a month before Wrath of the Lich King pre-patch.

Thank you for proving the point: a Shaman in gear far beyond the content, propped up by a team of equally overgeared raiders, can almost Tank Karazhan. Almost, because he loses aggro multiple times and OOMs his Healers.

@Bonerover-stormreaver

Please watch the video referenced. Or does this mean you’re going away now?

Hahahaha

[Jedai-mankrik]

Yes? And how is that relevant to the fact that shamans cannot tank even the easiest content in the conventional sense without vastly outgearing content ?

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

@Fasciae-fairbanks

Thank you for proving the point: a Shaman in gear far beyond the content, propped up by a team of equally overgeared raiders, can almost Tank Karazhan. Almost, because he loses aggro multiple times and OOMs his Healers.

So take the bet. You’re so confident say a Shaman will not tank Illidan.

[Cauchy-heartseeker]

@Mobikon-atiesh

@Bricklethumb-earthen-ring

Have a good day.

@Bricklethumb-earthen-ring

Have a good day.

Have a good day.

Have a good day.

[Bonerover-stormreaver]

You have different goals in a make believe video game man. Enjoy your goals.

Shaman tanks are meant to be fun.