TBC Shaman Tank Talents

https://discord.gg/mCyJmSDR

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Hero Dungeons are supposed to stay with use throughout the entire xpac, it’s expected of them to be hard. But literally with each passing day they get easier as people get better geared/learn.

Harping about Hero dung difficulty is a moot point that goes away completely by phase2.

why not focus on raids, which are dramatically harder to practice (lockout, getting people, etc…)?

I understand the reason for criticism but it’s not directed properly.

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Instead of waiting how about spreading the word of shaman tanking thus increasing its popularity/testing, so the wait can be reduced.

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Yes, as a matter of fact, yes. It is fun for the caster dps/healer who normally watch Netflix to actually pay attention and work together to achieve something that hasn’t been done before. Assuming ced players have agreed to try it out.

Best 5man comp atm: Shadow Priest, ret paladin, Hunter, resto druid. (if you know a competent Warrior DPS that can Commanding Shout replace Ret with Warrior.)

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In P1? No.

In black temple gear when we can face roll everything because our stats are 250% of what they are? Sure.

There are times where you equip a 2hand weapon but not consistently. Worldbreaker(phase2 weapon) for example will be the BiS weapon to have for your first SS as the mob hits you, unequip after. Worldbreaker crit proc is a gamble but a thing to consider nonetheless if you want as much working for you as possible.

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Should? please link me a post where I’ve ever said anything along the lines of Shaman make better tanks than other classes.

At most I’d have said their burst threat is rarely challengeable.

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Im assuming since you wrote more than 2 words that you’re are being serious. The fact that you think a hunter pet can tank better than a Hunter is hilarious, let’s not even broach the subject of shaman tanking just yet ><

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Fasc likes to browbeat. Just make fun of him when he does that, it’s fun to see him squirm. He makes some good point on occasion, though, so he can’t be all bad.

And it’s good to have you posting, Caperfin. I’ve enjoyed the vids very thoroughly.

As much as Shaman Tank was a thing in Classic, in TBC its not.

An Arms Warrior in PvP Gear without a Shield would Tank better or at least not worse then you.

You can force pretty much everything in WoW.

So, i really dont care about these Videos.
Show me how YOU do it, with the Gear aviable right now and without Tricks.

I dont accept full CC and Kiting, Facetank all Groups like a real Tank can and come back to me.

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So you don’t care about videos showcasing how various people are doing it. But then you ask for me, personally, to show you I make it work?

What’s so special about me, if I may ask. Because I’m a chump compared to these guys.

Oh, so because it isn’t up to your personal expectations, it’s automatically wrong.

Well no wonder you didn’t watch the videos. You can’t have anything objectve clouding your opinions or presumptions.

My mistake, then. Carry on.

You dont know what you are talking about and want to lecture people with some Videos from Private Servers.

You know, i played a Druid in Classic in all possible Speccs in Raid.
I played Melee Hunter with Nightfall.
I Tanked Dungeons as Shaman in Classic.

I know exactly what im talking about because i did stuff.
You, didn’t.

Do whatever you want. But do it and dont just talk about it.

The videos you didn’t watch, right?

You argued Shaman could meet/exceed Druid EH. Shush.

https://forum.turtle-wow.org/viewtopic.php?t=882#p4757

Tank Comparison
To showcase our max potential a full BiS geared and buffed shaman will be the closest in stats to approach a Druid tank. Let’s look at the stats to see the differences. As a guideline, the Example Druid Tank below is BiS/buffed and able to clear most bosses with no issue. A shaman like other tanks tailors his gear versus the boss they’re facing. Obviously, the Example Druid Tank can reach higher numbers and has a plethora of defensive spells, but the goal is to showcase the class with the closest similarity to a shaman in stats across the board that gets the job done in high-end raids.

Funnily enough, you’ve scrubbed all these comparisons from your guides now because they were ludicrous when you made them and couldn’t withstand scrutiny when AQ40/Naxx arrived and folks couldn’t just dismiss them as “bad theorycrafting” anymore. You’re a bad liar.

Oh and this gem:

From the same thread. You’re a troll, and a bad one.

Tanking isn’t some personal whim and the fact you and every Shaman ‘Tank’ wannabe want to treat it as such doesn’t make it so. You can either stand toe-to-toe with the enemies/boss without flinching and without needing a bail-out while the content is still relevant (thus a Tank) or you cannot (thus are not a Tank).

The video you posted shows a Shaman using the Brutalizer (Black Temple weapon) and shoulders from ZA, and he’s struggling, badly. That’s p-server garbage.

This is the part I don’t understand. So, is a warrior/druid that uses CC or kiting for heroics not a real tank either? If so, then yes you are correct. In the video I posted above I was using gear available (I don’t even have close to BiS gear) and was not using any tricks. Yes I used kiting and CC from a hunter because he was in my group so… why not use freeze trap?

Also, are you talking specifically about heroics? because if you mean normals too I definitely face tank those all the time.

Considering shamans can’t even tank normal dungeons without people dying lmao

You seriously think adding more caster armor to shamans is going to make it easier for you to tank? lmao

Easier for that poor healer that has to carry you as a burden maybe.

No, that’s not the point. A Shaman has to rely on CC/kiting to even do the job, Warriors/Druids/Paladins do not. If I have to just pick up an entire pack in Heroic Shattered Halls, I just do, the end, and DPS have to appreciate the 3-target limit on Swipe on a 7-target pull. That much damage lays into the Shaman and they just die, not to mention they can’t even try to hold that much in the first place thanks to aggro.

You often got so much CC on the more dangerous packs that you didn’t even take a hit from the mobs, they just got kited and chain rooted/stunned. The bosses you did fight aren’t even notably hard hitting. The one exception is the 2nd boss but he’s only “hard” if you lack a good source of AoE healing… which you didn’t because you had a Priest. The Priest bombed you with heals to keep the Mortal Wound off and would just top the group with a quick AoE heal whenever a volley went out.

You can’t always use CC and it severely diminishes the efficacy of a Tank if you have to craft a particular group around the Tank to make the Tank even work. A Paladin/Druid/Warrior can step into any Heroic with any amount of CC (or none at all) with any kind of Healer and do the content. A Shaman cannot.

These arguments always end up boiling down to “well the boss DIED didn’t it!?” kind of justification. Sure, you cleared the dungeon, you killed the boss, you got the loot. HOWEVER, if the threshold is just successfully clearing/killing and nothing more, then the entire concept of Tanking is reduced to more or less nothing at all.

  • Dungeons can be cleared without an actual Tank with sufficient kiting/aggro trading/CC
  • Dungeons can be cleared without a full group, rendering the minimum DPS requirement equal to a dead/missing person provided 4 others carry you
  • Dungeons can be cleared without Healers as well since you can CC/kite and many classes have their own forms of healing/regeneration that are entirely selfish but effective

This puts the minimum for success in Dungeons at the basement level of “do whatever you want because nothing matters” which is no threshold at all. This is why people push back on Shaman “tanking” because it barely gets above this level and people aren’t going to accept lowering the standards of Tanking to accommodate this kind of stuff. People pushed back in Vanilla when people claimed to Tank raids and logs showed them dead on the floor while other Tanks did the job for them after they exploded. The usual suspects showed up to say “BUT THE BOSS DIED!!”

Shamans will not be respected or viewed as legitimate Tanks until they can play like legitimate Tanks. Do Heroic Slave Pens without CCing, without kiting, without skipping, just man up and face-tank every bit of it, and do so without needing to OUTGEAR it either (that goes for your Healer and DPS as well), and you’ll have earned that title for that dungeon, just like the rest of us.

Otherwise you’re little different from a Frost Mage with 0/3 Frost Channeling who just Blizzard spams and Blinks while his group kills everything for him.

Most of the non-shaman tanks in my server look and use CC for heroics. Are they not tanking/being tanks then?

I actually had a paladin healer :wink:

So, if I were to tank H. SP without CC. Would you say I’m a tank then? I’m just worried I go ahead and do it and then you’ll just find some technicality to say I wasn’t tanking.

Until they get hit? how would a Frost Mage tank bosses? I get the feeling that a lot of the conversation above is just a reluctance to accept a different type of tanking that still does the job while not being optimal.