I’ll hold aggro on what I pull. That is precisely what I’ve declared as the pull. It’s, in theory, what I’ve said I can handle.
The thread is not just about leveling dungeons. The OP even referenced heroics.
Either way; until we abandon the idea that “do whatever because it’ll work” is a good plan we’ll never get better as a community. We’ve been downsliding for years, but honestly it’s worse now than ever.
Today we have two communities:
People who don’t want to do anything at all but get rewards.
People who want to do something and get rewards.
Group 1 shouldn’t get anything, honestly. If Heroic is faceroll from day 1 then it should award nothing of value. It does, though, and without gear it’s not a literal faceroll. It’s faceroll now because even one person being high ilvl is enough, but… having a full group of “just qualifies”? That’s a little bit more tedious, not too tedious, but it’s not face roll.
Heroics are in the same boat. Most classes can solo the dumb things. You don’t even need a tank or even a healer because of class self heals.
Edit: Would also like to point out that Heroics are pointless because you pretty much out gear them instantly.
That’s not a community thing, that’s Blizzard making it that way. You literally can “do whatever” and get by in leveling dungeons and heroics.
I’m actually a big fan of harder dungeons such as what was done in Cataclysm. The community that you speak of cried hard though so this is what we got. Don’t like it, talk to Blizzard.
Last I checked heroics give 885 gear. You’d optimally, gear wise, be doing these below that level to get gear. I’m not aware of any class, sub ~885, that can solo a Heroic just because.
World quests award higher level gear than Heroics, though. You’re unlikely to find anyone who’s below 885 doing them. In fact I don’t know why anyone does them, honestly. There’s no reward for doing them besides the random chance for an upgrade.
Unless you’re, I guess, hoping for Titanforges on a specific piece. At which point I don’t think the run should be dictated by your speed.
Well, yes, of course. My comment was meant in terms of people actually doing the dungeons.
If you’re just farming them then that’s different. I’m just defending the idea that a tank who’s just doing dungeons isn’t necessarily going to be happy about OP’s ideas.
I’m talking about being a tank in a dungeon that matters to that character specifically. You can outgear that, yes, but that doesn’t mean you have outgeared it yet.
I liked the “hard” heroics of the past. I’d like Normals to be harder, Heroics to be “hard” but not so hard people can’t do them with some strategy, and then Mythic/Mythic+ to be truly challenging. Currently M+0 feels like the old Heroic nerfed.
Again, Heroics are in the same boat. Not only is there no reason to do them, but if you do, there is no call for strict organization because they are too dumb easy. Chances of having anyone follow that order is pretty much nil unless you make your own group. Expecting random people to follow those rules is asinine because they just want to blow through it as fast as possible.
To be fair I did say that, if we can all handle it, I’m fine with people just killing stuff.
When I tank, particularly in lower content, I have no problem with people pulling and killing stuff. I’m just prioritizing the stuff they pull as relevant. If they pull it to me and get it caught in my AoE that’s fine too.
I think the medium we have know is very accommodating and mythic plus offers a great challenge. I’ve even enjoyed soloing some of them for funsies to see how well I could do. (Highest was a 4 I think)
I think Mythic+ offers a lot of challenge. Mythic 0 offers little to no challenge. Heroic and Normal are literally a cakewalk when you’ve gotten a few piece of world quest gear.
I’d prefer there be more of a progression between difficulties instead of having 3 difficulties that are irrelevant (Normal, Heroic, Mythic) and one difficulty that matters (Mythic+).
Why even have those three difficulties? They’re just loot modes. Might as well upgrade all normal dungeons to heroic level loot and remove Mythic+0 entirely.