System whiners got their wish

[Averagejay-stormrage]

Remember when Vanilla, BC, and Wrath had no AP and the player base was higher than it is now? I remember.

[Wyldlock-thrall]

Cutting down on the ‘chores’ is good for our mental health.

however, I do feel that they need to always have things to do outside of group content. I just feel like they should do it in a way that is not a power grind.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Kennie-malganis

@Lunkel-garona

there is nothing to do aside from world quests and dungeons.

Yeah, most people actually want this, though. Just content. Minimal tedium/chores to function in said content. Raids, keys, pvp, etc, and then I’m sure they have casual world stuff for people who don’t like group content.

This describes both Wrath and WoD styles where you leveled, then proceeded to dungeons/raids or PvP without any other chores.

The game worked that way for a long time, until it didn’t it seems.

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

@Pyri-shadowsong

on the other hand, AP felt awful. if you weren’t grinding it on your main, you were falling behind. taking any significant amount of time off meant you missed out on a lot that you could never really catch up on, and watching everyone else buy and equip corruptions that you couldn’t use felt terrible.

[Kennie-malganis]

@Argorwal-ysera

This describes both Wrath and WoD styles where you leveled, then proceeded to dungeons/raids or PvP without any other chores.

Yeah, it was great.

@Argorwal-ysera

until it didn’t it seems

I think wod just didn’t have anything for anybody who didn’t engage in one of the two major content types, although, honestly, I’m not really sure how people stay busy outside of those.

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

@Averagejay-stormrage

Remember when Vanilla, BC, and Wrath had no AP and the player base was higher than it is now? I remember.

VERY good point.
Great point, actually.

[Rikira-caelestrasz]

@Lunkel-garona

The preach vid

Didn’t he quit WoW?

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

@Pyri-shadowsong

on the other hand, AP felt awful. if you weren’t grinding it on your main, you were falling behind. taking any significant amount of time off meant you missed out on a lot that you could never really catch up on, and watching everyone else buy and equip corruptions that you couldn’t use felt terrible.

Hell, AP’s not the only example of this. Just this season, Blizzard randomly removed the conquest cap for arena. I started dating a nurse around that time and I wanted to spend a couple nights with her. What happened? I go to queue a couple of days later and I’m fighting full conq geared people and the grind becomes painful beyond all words because I fell behind without much warning being given.

[Vishamani-illidan]

@Shadina-gorefiend

Honestly though, that’s all we had before too was you hit cap. You do some dungeons. You get some gear. You do some other content. You level an alt. You hang out. You have fun.

agreed.

and thats exactly why we had fun. because we had time for alts. we had time to do what we wanted to do.

none of this “forced” grinds and then if you wanna play an alt and make them viable… whomp… another “forced” grind.

it was nice when we could just play and gear. and do it again on alts or whatever we wanted.

[Echab-zuljin]

Yep. I will not miss the temp systems. They were a complete waste of dev and player time. Good riddance.

[Dieliania-dentarg]

Yes… and they can go totally old school too and make them a real grind… but optional… The best thing about this game used to be your ability to play it how YOU wanted. now you have to play it how THEY want. Sorry, but developers aren’t part of my fantasy.

[Thallia-sentinels (Thallia)]

@Dieliania-dentarg

If Blizz wants to put back optional grinds like the Wintersaber style stuff… whoo hoo… I’ll probably slowly work on them over the next 5 years. But I don’t want them part of my progressive play or required play.

@Pyri-shadowsong

i think it’s great to have long-term grinds that people can choose to participate in. they just shouldn’t be tied to basic character features or power.

Bingo! This is the important part that I think OP needs to understand.

[Billnein-tichondrius]

@Yelenya-daggerspine

I LOVE grinds…IF they are in moderation and IF they are contained within interesting content.

i generally agree with this but spamming torghast or needing to repeat the same trash in ZM over and over and over and over and over again on alts is just unacceptable.
if my options are that or get rid of it completely, ill take the latter every single time.

[Prismriver-faerlina]

This is my biggest worry. we’ve played for more than 6 years now with some shiny cool feature in each patch. Whether that be tier or lego’s something adds some spice to the gameplay. Now we just have tier. And the abilities from tier are pretty passive compared to before.

Will people really be happy about grinding for minimal power upgrades? I guess we’ll see.

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

@Billnein-tichondrius

i generally agree with this but spamming torghast or needing to repeat the same trash in ZM over and over and over and over and over again on alts is just unacceptable.

Absolutely AGREE.
I thought torghast was going to be similar to running random dungeons solo. loved the concept.
once I got inside and saw its the same nauseating gray landscape over and over and over…Jesus…whats the suicide rate in this place? lmao.

@Billnein-tichondrius

if my options are that or get rid of it completely, ill take the latter every single time.

You got my vote…seconded.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Kennie-malganis

@Argorwal-ysera

This describes both Wrath and WoD styles where you leveled, then proceeded to dungeons/raids or PvP without any other chores.

Yeah, it was great.

@Argorwal-ysera

until it didn’t it seems

I think wod just didn’t have anything for anybody who didn’t engage in one of the two major content types, although, honestly, I’m not really sure how people stay busy outside of those.

Expansions like TBC, Wrath, and Cata didn’t have much to do for non-instanced content players either in its launch. A minor amount of inconsequential daily hubs.

Is daily hubs the key glue that holds the game together? WoD still had a daily assault style quest and many garrison things to work on, but I dunno people just, in larger numbers than usual, seemed to decide that the normal level → dungeons/raid or PvP path was now “nothing to do”

And we have classic TBC that just finished so we know there wasn’t things to do, it’s not based on faulty memories. Wrath classic will be the same way once the leveling rush is over.

[Rálph-earthfury]

lol

raiders: ‘u open world people want player power? u are forced to do raids! dealwithit’

also raiders: ‘we dont want forced to do open world to get player power!’

[Rhuor-wyrmrest-accord (Rhuor)]

Forever grinds that make me feel like I fall behind if I don’t log in deserve to burn. BfA felt like the worst for that, but even SL and seeing how much anima I’d need to finish collecting the sets is brutal and feels bad. There are other games out there to enjoy and I want to be able to go and enjoy them without that nagging sensation at the back of my head telling me I’m wasting time not grinding whatever flavor of continuous grind WoW has at the time. There should be options that people can opt in or out of, not forced.

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

@Rálph-earthfury

lol

raiders: ‘u open world people want player power? u are forced to do raids! dealwithit’

also raiders: ‘we dont want forced to do open world to get player power!’

Theres some irony for ya. Great point. I dont think Id really noticed that one.

[Lokaa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Lunkel-garona

After you get done leveling, there is nothing to do aside from world quests and dungeons.

Sounds like fun to me. And you forgot raiding. I honestly can’t wait!

@Lunkel-garona

The features seem almost non existent and I think a month after launch when the casual players have nothing else to do, we’ll see a large drop off in players.

I love how everyone seems to be an expert in what “casuals” want. Casual describes many different types of people, and none of them all like or dislike the same things like a Hivemind.