Coming from someone who believes that nearly everyone who doesn’t like where Blizzard is taking Sylvanas and how inconsistent her characterization has been for a long time = lying to yourself and being a closest sexist.
That is rich. But somehow your behaviour is not “disguisting” according to you. As I keep mentioning, I am not the only one who has called you out. Yet you continue to act like I am.
Calling people out for toxic behaviour is NOT SEXIST.
Men are not under represented in gaming communities. You are not a minority here. Your voice isn’t repressed, but you are doing a damn good job repressing the handful of female players and make here who don’t agree with the sexist majority here. If you think you are one of the good guys, think again.
Sexism is not exclusive to women, so does reverse sexism mean equality between the sexes ?
But they don’t react the same way and I explained that to you in detail. What you are experience right now is called confirmation bias. Your current beliefs are affecting how you interpret the evidence that I have presented to you.
No, it is not.
Saying that you have a toxic mindset and calling you out on it = repressing you?
GROW UP. I am not the only one who has called you out on this line of thinking. Yet you CONTINUE act like I am the only one.
As I said, I will call out ANY toxic behaviour and line of thinking REGARDLESS of who it comes from. I did it with Cursewords a few weeks back. And clearly I am not the only one who does this.
So according to you, in order to not be a sexist I have to agree with EVERYTHING you say?
You are completely right my voice is not repressed.
And the same cannot be said about you, that you are so convinced there is a sexist undertone when it comes to female characters that you are seeing it everywhere even though it does not exist ?
Ahm, yes it is.
No, you just don’t like a character I like and you are claiming it’s about sexism to invalidate my real experience in this forum.
It was NEVER about this character. She’s just a footnote in this arguement because clearly this argument is about sexism.
I came to this conclusion after observing the evidence that I am officially trained to look for.
You did not come to any conclusion, you just deny the evidence is there.
So no, the same cannot be said about me. You are bias, I am not.
No, its not.
I have quoted you SAYING THIS. Don’t act like you never did. You even agreed with Micah saying that most people who hate Sylvanas do so because she is a “strong female character” and if they say otherwise, they are lying.
And how many times do I have to repeat this. I AM NOT ALONE IN CALLING YOU OUT ON THIS TOXIC VIEWPOINT.
The name and opening posts of this thread says otherwise. Numerous people said they don’t like Sylvanas because of the directions Blizzard has taken her in recent years. Then you and Micah come along and say all of reasons are BS because they are secretly sexists.
Do you want me to quote those posts again? Or are you just going to ignore that they exist? What about the other posters calling you out?
And while that is horrible, it does not give you the right to go around and accuse everyone under the sun that does not like Sylvanas for doing that.
Honestly it sounds like you are starting to accuse me of doing it. Even though I am not.
Based on my personal experience I have seen people hate Sylvanas for being a strong female character. I’ve had guild mates say this. I’ve seen trade chat say this. It’s less about Sylvanas as a character than it is Strong independant women, because Tyrande and Jaina get the exact same hate.
When I see Akiyass, who I don’t even agree with half the time, validate my own personal experience as a woman here, saying she experiences the exact same microaggressions from the same people, that validates that it’s not just about Sylvanas.
It’s about how this fanbase, this forum and corperation treats women poorly.
Akiyass did all the arguing today, you are just targetting me because I’m a Sylvanas fan and you don’t like me, so don’t try to play this off like you aren’t targetting me for a reason.
I feel like making a comment on forsaken society based on my impressions as a forsaken player.
Sylvanas probably didn’t take the mantle of Banshee Queen. It seems more likely an honorific bestowed upon her by the Forsaken themselves.
Sylvanas probably didn’t set up Forsaken society at all never mind whether it is matriarchal or not. Forsaken society was more than likely constructed by the forsaken themselves loosely based upon the pre-existing systems and institutions of Lordaeron and their experience as part of the scourge collective. Sylvanas provided the circumstance with which that society could develop prosper and grow. There are plenty of female apothecaries, and there are plenty of female commanders.
Ahem. Point of order.
While blizzard may have been pushing this line, the Forsaken do have a genuine leadership without Sylvanas and one that can seemlessly continue in Sylvanas absence.
The Death Guard are the backbone of forsaken society. They are governed by a hierarchy of Executors.
The Executors are officers within the Forsaken army. They seem to perform different tasks of military and civil nature, like commanders, lieutenants, captains or even region governors and city magistrates. Apparently, as military top officers, they also have medium-control over members of the Deathstalkers that are working in their area of influence.[citation needed] They are the most skilled warriors and fighters within the Forsaken ranks, acting as strategists and leading the Dark Lady’s military actions to victory.
The head of the death guard is Grand Executor Mortuus who was answerable to Sylvanas alone.
Here is a list of named Executors. They are made up of both men and women. Others may exist.
Grand Executor Mortuus - Forsaken High Command
High Executor Crenshaw - Lights dawn Cathedral
High Executor Anselm – Vengence Landing
High Executor Darthalia – Tarren Mill
High Executor Derrington -the Bulwark
High Executor Hadrec – The Sepulcher
High Executor Mavren – the Ghostlands
High Executor Wroth – Venomspite
Executor Arren – Deathknell
Executor Cornell – Emberstone Village
Executor Zygand – Brill
Yes, because your evidence does not justify your claims. Would the story of Jaina change if she was a man, exact same events, exact same reactions and exact same emotions ?
Ok care to show me this Tyrande negativity coming from EU Alliance players then ?
Then provide some examples. That is what numerous people including myself have asked you to do. And each time you do not.
There are others (and I have listed them several times) that have called you out for your toxic mindset and yet I am the only one who is now an “enemy”? How come you are not raging at those posters?
How many times do I have to say that I will call out any toxic behaviour I see regardless of the source?
As I mentioned in my first post on this thread. The hate Jaina gets is mainly directed to her circular character arc when it comes to her relationship with the horde.
Not everyone who dislikes characters like Jaina, Tyrande and Sylvanas are sexist pieces of crap. So don’t go around and accusing those who dislike these characters because of the way they are WRITTEN of being such. Which is what myself and many others have tried telling you and Micah repeatedly. And no not say that they are making up those issues as excuses to hide their “sexist behaviour”.
While there definitely are some people who hate them for being female, and call them out when it does happen. Do not go around and say X, Y and Z are sexists when they provide reasons for not like them that have nothing to do with their sex or gender.
Why can’t
I call you out on YOUR toxic behaviour
because you are being toxic. You didn’t even read the whole thread you just want to attack me now for being a Sylvanas fan.
If it was really about accusations of sexism you’d be calling out Akiyass right now too, she did all the arguing against misogynists today. I merely cheered her on from the sidelines.
The first post you replied to of mine was directed at this post.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/sylvannas-negativity/1168952/107
That was made before the thread derailed into about Night Elves. And the thread was still mainly about Sylvanas. That is what I meant by you taking things out of context. And before that I had called you out on your behaviour in this post,
Which you seemingly ignored. Along with ALL THE OTHER people who called you out on it.
Calling you out for your toxic behaviour is not toxic. Getting angry that you continued to miss the point, tried to deflect, ignored etc is not toxic.
I have known that you are a Sylvanas fan for a long time. So do not act like THAT is the reason why I am calling you (and Micah) out for your toxic line of thinking all of a sudden. Because it is not. And I have provided evidence numerous times showcasing that.
So why am I suddenly the villain here where other people have done basically the same thing I have done? Called out your toxic behaviour. I even linked their posts of them doing this. Which you ignored like I knew you would.
I am going to link them again. Some of them, like Doness are part of your “allies” in these forums. Like I was.
Sylvannas negativity - #82 by Arlifrex-moon-guard - Arlifrex
Sylvannas negativity - #86 by Amadis-draka - Amadis
Sylvannas negativity - #92 by Doness-kargath - Doness
Sylvannas negativity - #95 by Thadeus-caelestrasz - Thadeus
Sylvannas negativity - #104 by Amonet-azshara - Amonet
You are right that I should read the rest of the thread. But the rest of the thread is not relevant to the point that I am trying to get across. We are talking about what you and micah wrote in the following posts.
So please, stop trying to act like it is. Friends should call out their friends on their toxic behaviour / mindsets period. Not just let them continue that line of thinking.
I do apologize for any offense I may have caused. But as I have said numerous times, I was not the only one who was calling you and Micah out. So please, stop acting like I was. If you are going to accuse one of us of being toxic for doing so, then you need to accuse all of us. Not pick and choose who you want.
Classic whataboutism.
Seeing how it was me who was primarily having a discussion with Akiyass, did you just call me a misogynist again ? You really are toxic aren’t you ?
While there good points raised about how women in WoW are treated, to see how much that’s indicative of Blizzard itself, how are female characters in Blizzard’s other games portrayed, especially female characters in positions of power?
(besides Kerrigan, I know all about her)
I can’t speak for Overwatch, Starcraft, and others, but Hearthstone removed Succubi from their game completely, and replaced them with a felstalker and a female Nathrezim. That was a while ago. More recently, they also added human women of color as major characters, in the form of Cariel and Tamsin Roame.
The Tyrande arc of having to choose between Renewal or Vengeance is incredibly bad optics and patronizing. We have to understand that vengeance in this context is the character’s agency to act on those who wronged her.
If I had to compare it to a real life scenario, it is like a woman who went through something traumatic and is handed money (renewal) and an NDA that comes along with it to prevent her from pursuing charges against the wrong doer (vengeance).
Meanwhile for the rest of the history of Night Elves and why they have been seemingly constantly kicked. Or Theramore… honestly probably they are the most accessible places to attack by the Horde and the reason why their development has sucked is because Blizzard is unable to write these characters and races properly. Their writers just can’t right a proper strong female character or a matriarchal society. Its not sexism, its just they suck at it.
Christie Golden has long be criticized that she writes female characters as unhinged, despite these characters having every reason to be upset.
Also, its probably because Blizzard could burn a million goblins and no one would care. Humans and pretty elves though… different story.