He’s still responsible for his own actions in the end.
Old Soldier to me was the first step they was taking to try and make the horde hate Sylvanas. They wanted to get the player base to rally behind Saurfang but a weird odd thing happened. Most of the people that decided to go against Sylvanas actually decided to Rally behind zappy boy.
That is true.
Sylvanas isn’t Garrosh 2.0 because she’s Arthas 2.0. The invasion of Ashenvale/Darkshore and the destruction of Teldrassil is a pretty on-the-nose parallel to the Scourge invasion of Quel’thalas and the destruction (tainting, but the end result was the same) of the Sunwell…down to mocking the dying leader of the defending forces for ‘defying’ her.
The only way they could’ve beaten the player over the head with the Arthas parallel even more would’ve been if Sylvanas had raised Delaryn from the dead right then and there in the cinematic. Even so she specifically targets her for reanimation later out of spite…cinching the parallel between her and Arthas even further.
She also has literally the same goal as Arthas (turn the world into undead…
2 Likes
I see a couple of similarities between Sylvanas and Arthas but not enough. She has way more in common with Garrosh.
And Sylvanas doesn’t want to turn the world into the undead anymore. Now she’s working for the Jailor.
3 Likes
They literally made the Saurfang vs Sylvanas cinematic identical to the Wrathgate cinematic.
Huh… what? Where was the plague bombs and a traitor cackling from on top of a cliff then? Also, we’re missing a few red dragons to burn all the people that died… except only one person died. Yeah I don’t see:
But please continue to try to shove a square peg into a round hole 
3 Likes
Eh… I see Darkshore and Teldrassil more akin to Theramore because the purpose was to break the Alliance’s power base on the continent.
2 Likes
- Sylvanas wasn’t influenced by a Old God, she was influenced by a bargain she made with the Jailer. Garrosh wasn’t influenced by an Old God. Blizzard has gone on record stating he was just plain evil.
- Sylvanas has mysterious powers. Garrosh did not. Drawing power from the heart to empower himself is not “mysterious” powers - we knew where they came from.
- Sylvanas was only written to make the Horde hate her after she left the Horde. There’s literally an entire questline for people who believe she was right and side with her. Garrosh was written to make the Horde hate him from the start of MoP when he bombed Theramore.
- Sylvanas broke open the Shadowlands, yes. Garrosh did NOT open the Dark Portal to Draenor. That was Kairoz, one of the Bronze Dragonflight.
Maybe pay attention to what you’re reading?
2 Likes
Finally a competent individual. Sadly, I don’t think these people care. They know they’re wrong, just don’t want to admit it.
To be fair, Garrosh may have been a dick but at least there was a coherent logic to his actions. It may have been savage and self destructive, but it made sense of him wanting to defeat his enemies.
Sylvanas was just chaotic stupid.
3 Likes
This is nitpicking but I agree he could have worded it better. I would have said:
- Both Sylvanas and Garrosh went insane and got “powered up” from an outside source. Garrosh from a dead old god’s heart; Sylvanas from the jailer.
- Lol no. She was written to hate her the moment she killed her own people outside of Lordaeron. They started writing Garrosh to be a power hungry idiot in Cata too and imo that’s when it started. Stonetalon must have been written waaaaaay before they did the Twilight Highlands’ quest line.
- Both Sylvanas and Garrosh’s escape from justice ushered in a new xpac and a brand new world.
2 Likes
You’d probably get your point across a little better if you went about it with a little less high-horse smugness.
The burning of Teldrassil didn’t exactly endear me to her. It was a cool villain moment, but I never got the impression she was written as a sympathetic character before she left the Horde.
If anything, I thought it was odd how the Horde seemingly went right along with her plans, up until they didn’t.
2 Likes
well not a literal sense like the gnome said, but minorly like its there.
but not very noticeable.
He’s the one that said “literal” and “identical.” Maybe he should have picked better words since it’s literally not identical in any way.
3 Likes
-Sylvanas was not influenced by old gods.
-Garrosh was only ever influenced by old gods when he drank Y’Shaarj’s heart juice.
-Sylvanas’s sudden powers are bad story telling impo. There was no lead up to it, she just suddenly had powers, hopefully we’ll learn more about it in SL.
-Garrosh never had mysterious powers? Maybe I completely missed something but I’m practically 100% sure he never had mysterious powers unless from drinking old god heart juice. Which makes sense.
-Sylvanas written to be hated by the horde isn’t quite complete yet, I’m personally waiting to see the end of that before making assumptions. Shes never been a “good” person, but the sudden shift to true baddy so far isn’t great imo.
-Garrosh ended up being a ruthless warchief, set on conquering basically everything. He wanted the horde to be stronger then what they were so he set about changing things and ended up going too far to make his “True Horde”.
He wasn’t always a bad guy, true but being given the rank/status of warchief, he could do essentially anything he wanted and did basically exactly that. He didn’t really have a sudden shift like sylvanas did imo, he wanted the horde to be truly feared and to destroy anyone who opposed him and his true horde. He want too far and the rest of the horde, especially the dark spear, turned against him.
-Sylvanas did open a gate to another dimension, yes.
-Garrosh did not open a gate to another dimension. He was imprisoned then Wrathion and Kairozdormu set him free, Kairozdormu was trying to set some stuff in motion going into WoD, I don’t recall what he was trying to do exactly, but regardless it didn’t go well for him as Garrosh killed him not long after arriving in Draenor.
I agree that so far sylvanas is still in line with being a Garrosh 2.0, she currently is absolutely a baddy who used and turned against the horde, who knows how blizzard will change that.
I think they misunderstand my statement of the Sylvanas being written to be hated. I think they believe I am saying we are forced to hate her against our will. However I am not talking about our characters but the Horde players themselves. They wanted to make Sylvanas hated so it could be easier to write her off like they did Garrosh although Sylvanas had, and still has more fans then Garrosh. That is in part due to Garrosh being written poorly from the start back in TBC.
To add… I didn’t like her after her betrayal at Stormheim.
Lets not forget that she risked the survival of the planet a a whole during after she failed to personally achieve her goals in Stormheim by utilizing the trust and efforts of the Horde champion in their pursuit of the Aegis of Aggramar to try to enslave Eyir before the Aegis was secured… thus risking the wrath of Odyn and the ability of the Horde Champion to achieve victory in the race for the Aegis.
some people dont know words these days.
1 Like
I was going to mention Stormheim - that seemed to me the moment they handed her the villain/anti-hero bat.
I don’t even mind them making her a less sympathetic character, or an outright villain, but seeing her follow very similar beats to Garrosh is disappointing. Even if they’re not literally the same character, and don’t follow the same goals, they do feel similar enough to give me some deja-vu.
Would have much preferred Sylvanas playing Big Brain Villain and turning us against one another through clever subterfuge, false flag attacks and the like. That seems much more her style.
5 Likes