So...we're arguing over whether Sylvanas secretly ordered the blighting of her own troops at the Wrathgate...while ignoring that she blighted her own troops at the Siege of Lordaeron.
Mkay.
I don't know, that's debetable. On this point, if I remember the cinematic well enough, both armies did look like they were pulling their weight fairly well.The original cinematic was that both sides were advancing as one, Arthas showed up and summoned an enormous number of servants, and Dranosh charged in to try and end Arthas then and there. He was run through and his soul was absorbed by Frostmourne, while the armies and Bolvar were fighting tooth and nail to hold their ground. Cue Putress.
In the revised version, established in Chronicle 3, both sides were cutting through the Scourge. Arthas just walked back through the gate, Putress deployed the blight, and killed 9,000 living soldiers as well as both Bolvar Fordragon and Dranosh Saurfang. It takes care to mention that rumors still persist within the Horde that it was done under orders from Sylvanas, which is something people speculated about for years after she was strangely silent during the planning to reclaim Undercity.
11/09/2018 06:34 PMPosted by KyveliI don't know, that's debetable. On this point, if I remember the cinematic well enough, both armies did look like they were pulling their weight fairly well.The original cinematic was that both sides were advancing as one, Arthas showed up and summoned an enormous number of servants, and Dranosh charged in to try and end Arthas then and there. He was run through and his soul was absorbed by Frostmourne, while the armies and Bolvar were fighting tooth and nail to hold their ground. Cue Putress.
In the revised version, established in Chronicle 3, both sides were cutting through the Scourge. Arthas just walked back through the gate, Putress deployed the blight, and killed 9,000 living soldiers as well as both Bolvar Fordragon and Dranosh Saurfang. It takes care to mention that rumors still persist within the Horde that it was done under orders from Sylvanas, which is something people speculated about for years after she was strangely silent during the planning to reclaim Undercity.
Yep, posted the link to the video above, everyone can just watch it for themselves.
So they added more to what we already saw. That's not bad.11/09/2018 06:34 PMPosted by KyveliThe original cinematic was that both sides were advancing as one, Arthas showed up and summoned an enormous number of servants, and Dranosh charged in to try and end Arthas then and there. He was run through and his soul was absorbed by Frostmourne, while the armies and Bolvar were fighting tooth and nail to hold their ground. Cue Putress.
In the revised version, established in Chronicle 3, both sides were cutting through the Scourge. Arthas just walked back through the gate, Putress deployed the blight, and killed 9,000 living soldiers as well as both Bolvar Fordragon and Dranosh Saurfang
A rumor is just that, a rumor. Does it also get retconned that she was almost killed when the RAS forcefully took over the Undercity?11/09/2018 06:34 PMPosted by KyveliIt takes care to mention that rumors still persist within the Horde that it was done under orders from Sylvanas, which is something people speculated about for years after she was strangely silent during the planning to reclaim Undercity.
Imo, the mistrusts between the forsaken and the rest of the Horde was always a thing, I still remember how forsaken players started as neutral with the rest of the Horde save for the blood elves. That's what gave flavor to the faction so to speak, but to claim that what Alex said in an interview can be taken as official retcon, it's a bit of a stretch.
11/09/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Chikishi11/09/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Midare...So, a line, on a non official source, from someone that could have misspoken, is all you got?
Oh Withpuppys is totally right about the retconning. I'm just sticking with the original story here. because, you know, it's way better.
Basically. Sorry, Blizz, you don't get to change an important moment in the game that's been ingrained in people's brains for like a decade on a whim.
11/09/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Bipzi...
Yeah...I can't take that article seriously when I KNOW what really happened.
This isn't about the article itself, it's about what WoW creative director Alex Afrasiabi said. Googling it, it's been suspected by never confirmed that Sylvanas ordered the Wrathgate blighting, but denied doing so. Alex just confirmed the suspicions, she ordered the Wrathgate and used Putress and the Dreadlord as scrapegoats. This means essentially that Sylvanas ordered the Blighting of Horde troops at the Wrathgate when she wasn't even Warchief.
Even if its true in the end it still prevented them from being turned and used as agents of the lich king.
I like how they retcon things in the past for current plot fuel
/s
/s
That Sylvanas was involved on the planning of the Wrathgate as always been up for speculation, so it getting confirmed really isn't that much of a shocker.
I mean if she hadn't been betrayed then it would have been very hard for her to wash her hands, so it's quite fortuitous Putress and Varimatrass betrayed her when they did.
Almost like she had planned it so. Almost as she had set them up to believe it was their plan. Almost as if she saw the opportunity in two underlings straying away to play them into executing a devastating plan that could not be traced back to her.
I mean if she hadn't been betrayed then it would have been very hard for her to wash her hands, so it's quite fortuitous Putress and Varimatrass betrayed her when they did.
Almost like she had planned it so. Almost as she had set them up to believe it was their plan. Almost as if she saw the opportunity in two underlings straying away to play them into executing a devastating plan that could not be traced back to her.
Passively, she contributed to Wrathgate by ordering Putress to create a new Blight and trusting Putress and Varithamis (SP?) and not seeing the betrayal coming.
That said, she was suprised as anyone of the attack and rebellion and I would say, at that time, she was completely focused on eliminating Arthas and nothing else.
That said, she was suprised as anyone of the attack and rebellion and I would say, at that time, she was completely focused on eliminating Arthas and nothing else.
11/09/2018 06:51 PMPosted by TalendrionThat Sylvanas was involved on the planning of the Wrathgate as always been up for speculation, so it getting confirmed really isn't that much of a shocker.
I mean if she hadn't been betrayed then it would have been very hard for her to wash her hands, so it's quite fortuitous Putress and Varimatrass betrayed her when they did.
Almost like she had planned it so. Almost as she had set them up to believe it was their plan. Almost as if she saw the opportunity in two underlings straying away to play them into executing a devastating plan that could not be traced back to her.
I don't think she would have cared, to be honest. All Sylvanas and Forasaken lore at that point basically points to the fact that while they were nominally in the Horde, the war in Northrend was personal. They were there for revenge, liberation, and nothing else. I don't think Sylvanas would have thought twice about gassing Horde troops if Arthas could have been taken out. This was Sylvanas in full "arrows in my quiver" mode, before the Val'kyr saved her after her suicide attempt. I don't think she would have felt the need to cover anything up at all if she had ordered that.
11/09/2018 06:43 PMPosted by MidareA rumor is just that, a rumor. Does it also get retconned that she was almost killed when the RAS forcefully took over the Undercity?11/09/2018 06:34 PMPosted by KyveliIt takes care to mention that rumors still persist within the Horde that it was done under orders from Sylvanas, which is something people speculated about for years after she was strangely silent during the planning to reclaim Undercity.
Imo, the mistrusts between the forsaken and the rest of the Horde was always a thing, I still remember how forsaken players started as neutral with the rest of the Horde save for the blood elves. That's what gave flavor to the faction so to speak, but to claim that what Alex said in an interview can be taken as official retcon, it's a bit of a stretch.
didnt play horde-side in LK, did the players actually see sylvanas fleeing for her life from undercity? because if not, whose to say this is another one of her lies? I mean, she could have easily made it seem to Varimathras that she was weak, and now was the time to make his move, and the alliance deals with Putress before he would have a chance to see Sylvanas and say "wtf, we were following your orders!"
i dunno, i've never really trusted Sylvanas, and even before they confirmed/retconned/whatever you want to call this, it made complete sense to me that she's very much planning to take out every living being so she can be queen of azeroth with no one to oppose her, quelling any chance at rebellion, and securing her immortality.
11/09/2018 03:02 PMPosted by AlyuzandroWell well well, turns out she really is a bad apple.
No it more,m let retcon the game to our liking !@#$ the lore
11/09/2018 07:06 PMPosted by Seije
i dunno, i've never really trusted Sylvanas, and even before they confirmed/retconned/whatever you want to call this, it made complete sense to me that she's very much planning to take out every living being so she can be queen of azeroth with no one to oppose her, quelling any chance at rebellion, and securing her immortality.
Sort of but I think it is even simpler than that. I think literally the only thing she cares about is ending the Forsaken curse, for her in particular and as an only slightly lesser benefit, for her people.
I always saw the part about her being injured by the RAS as being a ruse. It felt heavily implied back in Wrath that the RAS were acting under her orders and when they failed to kill Arthas she faked a coup to save her skin from the rest of the Horde. Putress went from co-conspirator to patsy. And now that one of their lead writers has confirmed she ordered the attack by the RAS at the Wrathgate the fake coup theory in Undercity holds a lot of water.
I enjoy criticizing Blizzard's story as much as the next person, but I'd hold off until there was another confirmation on this.
I think the writers forgot their own lore again.
I think the writers forgot their own lore again.
I really wish The Battle for Undercity was still in the game. I was taking a break from WoW at the time and missed it.
11/09/2018 02:32 PMPosted by KhlorĂłsI might be missing something, but, she did not have anything to do in the original story at the warthgate it was the professor guy and the dreadlord that tried to instill a rebellion.
You mean that dreadlord that we beat up during his eternal damnation in the Burning Throne? Punished for his failure? That guy? Who blizzard clearly didn't forget about until just now?
His Burning Throne bio even says "he submitted to an ill-fated alliance with Sylvanas Windrunner, and then made one last bid for power before facing a humiliating defeat."
I remember the wrathgate, it's blurry but I remember it. We raided him with thrall. I don't actually remember what Sylvanas was up to at the time.
Varimathras did hint to this remember? Go back now and look at everything he says.
11/09/2018 07:38 PMPosted by VĂŁrick11/09/2018 02:32 PMPosted by KhlorĂłsI might be missing something, but, she did not have anything to do in the original story at the warthgate it was the professor guy and the dreadlord that tried to instill a rebellion.
You mean that dreadlord that we beat up during his eternal damnation in the Burning Throne? Punished for his failure? That guy? Who blizzard clearly didn't forget about until just now?
His Burning Throne bio even says "he submitted to an ill-fated alliance with Sylvanas Windrunner, and then made one last bid for power before facing a humiliating defeat."
I remember the wrathgate, it's blurry but I remember it. We raided him with thrall. I don't actually remember what Sylvanas was up to at the time.
Standing next to him :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thvM9fd-pJA
Of course, I assume you mean the Battle for the Undercity. Neither Thrall nor Sylvanas were at Wrathgate.
11/09/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Lorash11/09/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Chikishi...
Oh Withpuppys is totally right about the retconning. I'm just sticking with the original story here. because, you know, it's way better.
Basically. Sorry, Blizz, you don't get to change an important moment in the game that's been ingrained in people's brains for like a decade on a whim.
Yeah, they can. They retcon their own lore all the time. Originally the Eredar corrupted Sargeras, not the other way around. Muradin died in WC3. Valkyr could only raise humans until 8.1.
Blizz changes the lore whenever they want.