Without her actions there wouldn’t been a war on this large of a scale. Most of the Alliance wanted peace after the Legion fight and probably the Horde did as well. Vol’jin if alive, do you think he would tolerate Sylvanas burning the tree down? I don’t think he would and nor would Saurfang. This gave her the opportunity to use the Horde for her own gains and I guess feed Death, her new master or something. Unless they made the Alliance start the war, but they don’t fit well with any of the characters. I understand what they did, but I am still confused on what Sylvanas plans to do and why. She just seems bitter and she hates the living because I’m not exactly sure why, besides she is just pissed she is undead.
My only issue is all the Horde just seems to be “used” a lot, like Saurfang says and then they come off a being bad. I hope Sylvanas doesn’t become a raid boss though. She has a great character, but I’m not sure what they’ll do. Maybe keep her rogue or maybe she’ll save the planet somehow. But they have lined her up to be bad or killed at some point, I think. I guess I’m just mad she became bitter about the living and now she is all for Death…that is sort of lame. But she has had a traumatic life/undead life I guess.
They are one thing; Hypocrites just as the Alliance.
Everyone is as guilty and suddenly they all pretend they didn’t do anything to provoke war between them. Graymane and his attacks on Forsaken. Anduin allowing a bunch of spies in Orgrimmar, SI:7 starting an attack in what was otherwise a non warefare action (mining azerithe). Going for Silithus instead of defending allied territory…
And all the Horde leaders, instead of bannering together and confronting Sylvanas, following like sheep, stabbing from behind and then playing dumb that it was all of it fault of 1.
Like Team Rocket “We’re blasting off again!”
It was so out of character. She beat Saurfang in Mak’gora. Mak’gora is a 1v1 PvP battle. If she really believed the Horde was nothing she would of left a long time ago. I want to leave the Horde, they plan to make a Horde council…ewww. No more Warchief.
Shhh you aren’t supposed to mention how she was going to do that only about how she was the most honrable nicestest greatest most succecful warchief to ever exist.
Sup y’all, just a friendly reminder while we’re all arguing over whatever stupid topic this thread has turned into that the only reason for the OP was to pointlessly gloat over a portion of the fanbase getting screwed over slightly more than how badly screwed over the rest of the fanbase has been.
/clap /clap, Spud, really contributing here. If the player base were a bunch of soldiers in a foxhole waiting for Blizz to stop raining hellfire and idiotic story decisions upon us, you’re the guy who would mock some other foxhole dingus for getting his fingers shot off.
This trend of people convincing themselves that they were RiGhT aLL AlOnG about Sylvanas following that cinematic is why Red Shirt Guy has forsaken us.
Yes, she certainly was! Thank you for reminding me. See, Spud, this is how a proper thread should behave. No smugness, condescension, genuine mean-spiritedness.
Just exploring a common ground and the best story solutions for all, if only that we might sleep a little better collectively.
By the way I used to talk to Red Shirt Guy on and off on the Scrolls of Lore discord and this was one of the things I remember him saying to me.
Indeed. Everyone is always insisting that Genn is “the next Garrosh” but pretty much every time we see something that shows Sylvanas is irredeemably evil we get Genn being even more sympathetic.
The point of my thread was to state that the latest cinematic at the time of me posting this has Sylvanas canonically abandoning the Horde. It was however nice to gloat a bit when tons of people told me for a full year I was a traitor to the Horde for not backing Sylvanas and had to hear how precious and great of a Warchief she was and to just go ahead and roll Alliance if I didn’t like it.
I’m not convincing myself that I was right all along. I don’t need to. If you didn’t see which direction the story was going with the Teldrassil cinematic, I’m not sure what to tell you lol.
Vozul and company are still holding out hope that Sylvanas is redeemed in some way. There is a cultish fan base around Sylvanas. That being said, I’m glad she was revealed as a traitor to the Horde and is no longer Warchief. It was a step in the right direction of making the Horde great again.
Although we took a step back with 8.3 with the introduction of Vulpera into the Horde… Horde is becoming a faction of Elves, Undead and small little furry creatures. It’s like Blizzard doesn’t even care. They just give Horde whatever they think is cool and what will be the most popular and draw in the most people to play Horde. Lore and aesthetics be damned.
I imagine in that simplification you’re attaching a world of motives, but sure, I agree with this statement on the surface. She’s one of my favorite characters, a unique archetype, and fascinating to me in general. I think I’m just naturally drawn to b***hy base-breaking characters and the way her storyline is headed feels like a total waste—
…How do these two statements line up. She’s my favorite character, and she’s been attached to a storyline which many people on many sides have despised for the past year or two. I’m angry that she’s getting this crappy treatment.
Why am I suddenly a member of a cult? I’ve seen Sylvanas fans with a million different opinions from my own. I imagine you could ask me about any assumptions I’m sure you’ve made about me and you wouldn’t even be half right.
EDIT:
…Elves and undead have been a part of the Horde, now, for the majority of its history. Its primary aesthetic is still orcish and traditional, I don’t necessarily see why the Horde can’t have more than one aesthetic in the entire faction. I mean, Alliance gets woodsy elves, stony dwarves, gnomes, humans, draenei, etc. They all have their own unique aesthetics but nobody complains that the humans are getting drowned out—in fact, it’s usually the opposite. The Horde has a better track record of repping its different racial aesthetics, I think that’s a strength of the Horde. Sure, elves may not be your thing, but from what I’ve seen (and I play on an RP server so YMMV) there’s a good spread beyond the chunk of belves running around.
The Vulpera…I dunno how to feel about them. Lore’s okay, I’m just not into furries at all. Best case scenario, maybe a bunch of Alliance players will swap from worgen to vulpera and they’ll become convinced that maybe the Horde isn’t so bad?
Yeah, that sucks to get shot down and dismissed. I wish SF had a better track record of being less about roleplay and needless hostility and more player-centered. I try to balance my story opinions around how many players it might make happy, which is why this entire faction-sundering, fanbase-shattering expac feels like a bad fever dream that I wish never happened in the first place. We’re here, though. So I’ll be damned if we lose any more characters to contrived writing. (RIP Saurfang. Though you got yeeted in life, may your soul get yote straight into whatever orc paradise looks like in death.)
I was, ironically enough, holding out hope that maybe Blizzard would give the Horde a different direction than literally just MoP 2.0 beat-for-beat. How could anyone have possibly predicted that’s just what they were going to do, completely straight-faced, after telling us explicitly that things were going to be different and the Horde would still be a united entity and there were no “wrong answers” for one side or the other? I held that hope most strongly immediately following Teldrassil and it’s been whittled away like cutting fingers off somebody clinging to the edge of a cliff.
Aren’t you at least a little mournful about what’s happened to the Horde this expansion?
Then I think you did yourself a disservice, everything about that moment and cinematic made it terribly obvious the direction they were gonna go. They don’t make a faction leader genocide a player character race without giving them the famed “villain bat.” It would have been so jarring and absurd for them to like, not follow up on that. (Even then, they kind of swept the whole thing under the rug as if that was not the pinnacle of Sylvanas evil actions during the whole thing, as if “violating forsaken free will” was the true crime lmao)
“I use to think the Horde was a tragedy, now I realize it’s a comedy.”
It might surprise you but even I have shown sympathy with Sylvanas from certain points of view:
Don’t waste your time with Trivel. He’s exposed himself as an Orc supremacist who thinks the Horde is only for Orcs, or races that have adopted Orcs’ way and skewed sense of Honour.Noticed how he dislikes any races that doesn’t have the honour thematic tied to them?
Lies. My best buddy plays a Troll. I just don’t like Undead and Blood Elves who abused the Horde for their own advantages and were more loyal to a High Elf than the Horde itself. The Horde was never meant to be the edgy version of the Alliance. I have no idea what Blizzard is thinking with the direction of the Horde they are taking it. Blood Elf Paladins, Undead, “Nightborne” all loyal to a High Elf. That is not Horde. That belongs in its own faction. A faction that wants to look like the Alliance but actually not have to play as the Alliance.
At least the storyline of Sylvanas as Warchief is over and we can finally move on to make the Horde great again. If it were up to me I think a good purging within the Horde would be required to root out all of the traitorous Undead, Blood Elves and “Nightborne” and their bootlickers. They are not loyal or attached to what the Horde stands for. They do not care for the pride and honor of the Horde. All they care about is following a High Elf because they think she’s hot and believe that it’s somehow the more “anti-Alliance” thing to do despite the fact they want to look like the Alliance aesthetically.
Vulpera are pretty thematically similar to the Classic Horde races. They’re scrappy lil’ survivors who have learnt how to live in a harsh, unforgiving landscape.
I would have thought Trivel was all about that, I guess they’re more into the more muscly furries, thats cool too.
Granted, it wasn’t “my Horde” that turned Red Alliance. Every single race you hate in the Horde all fit the core thematics established in the WC3 Horde. Well. Maybe beside “Honour”. But why care about a concept poorly represented and is just an empty, meaningless husk in this game? What seem to bother you is the curtain. Not what is behind. Pretty much a superficial take of what is the Horde.
