Sure will make me feel better about it. I don’t even need the rest of the Horde punished for it with her. Having had to follow along with her this whole expansion has been punishment enough for the rest of the Horde.
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Rationalize the lack of retribution however you like.
Did you miss Mount Hyjal and Val’sharah? Lack of retribution is old hat. I’m sure you’ll be working for Malfurion and Tyrande again in an expansion or two and complaining about an absence of Horde content again.
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I’m not sure what’s relevant to this to be missed, really.
Content balance is a bit of an aside and I’m not really sure how it relates to the faction conflict in terms of each side doing whatever they deem necessary for their own prosperity. As for working with the other side, I don’t really mind.
Horde were fire bombing Astranaar and killing children, and Malfurion simultaneously worked with them at Mount Hyjal. After that same invasion into Ashenvale Tyrande worked even with Horde players that tried to corrupt the very Forest Heart of Ashenvale, and worked with the Horde in general in Suramar. Lack of retribution is mainstay of Blizzard’s storytelling for Night Elves as much as the villain bat is for the Horde. It’s to be expected.
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Again I don’t really see how this relates to the conversation.
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This part.
There’s nothing to rationalize when Blizzard writes the story however they want to without thinking out beyond that they want to write what they want to.
Hence:
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Except in the Baine scenario, the guards around Baine are blood elves, goblins, and orcs.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392758838891380736/573373949711220747/46db4b6c5d695915.png
https://i.gyazo.com/7996e80d17dd0a1ec4df5787feae3b90.jpg
https://i.gyazo.com/4b68715d97e0009921f028a4121cfd33.jpg
https://i.gyazo.com/3e1d4ad101acd3ced67ccd014232c045.jpg
The forsaken are merely in the underhold, guarding the research that the goblins and forsaken alchemists are doing. The ones guarding Baine’s area are orcs and Sunreavers.
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You’re going to enjoy Nazjatar just fine. You get to work with Genn and forgive him for attacking Sylvanas as Stormheim.
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But what does that have to do with what we were talking about? If the premise is either faction can do whatever they want to ensure their own success, how does “Blizzard has terrible writing” have relevance to that?
And I’m not sure you’ve grasped that the problem with Genn from my perspective isn’t that he wanted to kill Sylvanas, in fact I’m fine with him exterminating the entire Horde. The issue is that he betrayed his word on a false premise.
You can do whatever you like to an enemy, but the Horde and Alliance weren’t enemies until Genn attacked, what he did broke the peace between them.
A, the highlighted part is simply false, and B, I have no problem with members of the Horde working with Genn against Azshara and the Old Gods, its in their mutual interests to do so.
You’re the one who took the conversation that way:
You should be asking yourself what any of that has to do with what we were talking about.
And now you won’t be enemies with Genn any more and will have formally made a truce. Forgive or forget, by your standards, Stormheim as motivation is now void, right?
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It has to do with what we were talking about because Sylvanas’ death is clearly not achieving the ends of advancing the Night Elves’/the Alliance’s prosperity. At most it simply removes one actor. Anduin thinking peace is a realistic end just by ousting her is wrong.
No. They just individually choose to focus on murdering the Naga more than each other in Nazjatar. As political entities, no treaty between the Alliance and Horde was formulated. Even if they continue to work together to depose Sylvanas, there won’t be peace until we hear about a formal agreement between the factions.
Timestamp 1m:41s:
This is MoP 2.0. Removing one actor is the road to peace if it gets the Horde out of the Night Elf lands, and that’s all the retribution they have ever needed and probably will be the same again. Old. Hat.
Yeah, as individually you and Genn. The Horde champion personally has a truce with Genn.
- Genn Greymane: Jaina, our troops stand no chance against the Tidestone's guardian. Lor'themar and I will deal with the rest of the naga while you confront her.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore: Our champion bears the Javelin. We must ensure it strikes true. First Arcanist, if you shield me while I attack, we stand a better chance of succeeding.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: A sound plan. We face a formidable foe.
Lor’themar Theron: The Horde’s champions will drive every last naga from the palace. Azshara will pay for what she’s done.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore: Alliance heroes will dethrone the would-be queen. We won’t seek a fight with you, Lor’themar, but we will not abide interference.
Image of Queen Azshara: What have we here? Bitter rivals standing united around my Tidestone. I really do possess a gift for bringing my subjects together.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore: You can’t stop us, Azshara. We are coming to end your reign.
Image of Queen Azshara: Stop you? My dear child, why would I want to stop you?
Image of Queen Azshara: Consider this a formal invitation. My palace has been made ready. Your presence is eagerly anticipated.
Lor’themar Theron: We cannot afford to underestimate her strength, Jaina. It may take all of us to defeat her.
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But that’s not even close to an equivalence and according to your own arguments a peace treaty would be meaningless anyway.
Also in MoP the Horde actually stayed in Night Elf lands, so I’m not sure it would achieve even that. Overall it would be a pointless loss.
Nothing in those statements has the player agree to anything, and even the NPC’s don’t agree to anything beyond the extremely immediate issue. And everything else I said still stands, nothing carries forward into the future until a formal treaty between the factions is established.
Plus, you do know Nazjatar has an entire PvP element to it, right? It’s a big event.
Horde left Ashenvale after MoP. From one end of Ashenvale A Good War calls them “the ruins of Zoram’gar Outpost” and at the other end says “A few years ago, Mor’shan Rampart had been the bulwark against the night elves pushing into the Barrens, but it had been abandoned when Garrosh Hellscream had been deposed” and instead said “There should have been night elves on those fortifications.”
So you agree that when a formal treaty between the factions is established that by your standards Stormheim will no longer be valid motivation.
That’s the MoP playbook. Take down the warchief. Treaty. Horde are out of Night Elf lands. Horde works with the Night Elves again in an expansion or two. Horded gets the villain bat. Rinse and repeat.
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Actually, Good War says “The Horde hadn’t used it much since Hellscream had been deposed.”. Hadn’t used it much means it was still used sometimes. Moreover, in-game when going to it for the quest, it’s still manned and operated by it’s previous occupants, and the Horde expects it to be able to house their forces immediately. The only source that calls it “ruins” is Elegy, and that could be attributed to the Alliance’s lack of intelligence.
Moreover, I wasn’t really talking about Zoram’gar specifically, I was talking about all of the Horde settlements in the region to the East, with access though Azshara. Nothing ever said they were deserted, to my knowledge.
Of course, that’s one of the purposes of a treaty, to void previous casus belli in order to end an ongoing conflict. It’s irrelevant as far as the future goes anyway, given that according to the playbook it’s the Alliance that’s initiated every single faction conflict in the history of the game.
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Be a Sylvanas Loyalist or an Alliance dog…
Man… I would like to be just a mercenary who works for money.
Save baine only with lots of money involved, this guy sucks.
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Did you use the safe word?
Literally just quoted A Good War. Here’s the full line for you, though:
- Saurfang ordered the army to set up a brief staging ground on the open shores near the ruins of Zoram’gar Outpost. The night elves would never leave the safety of the trees to attack an exposed space, so the Horde could repair their equipment, eat, drink, rest, and tend to their aches and pains without fear of reprisal.
Um… I… also… literally just quoted this… Also… from A Good War:
- Within an hour, the convoy came within sight of the old Horde fortifications at the edge of the territory. A few years ago, Mor’shan Rampart had been the bulwark against the night elves pushing into the Barrens, but it had been abandoned when Garrosh Hellscream had been deposed.
There should have been night elves on those fortifications.
I don’t know what you thought you read in my post was.
Oh thank goodness. All the more reason to look forward to killing Sylvanas, so that you’ll not bring up Stormheim any more.
Don’t worry. MoP playbook is also to whitewash any Alliance aggression. I’m sure Alex Afrasiabi will retcon it into canon that Sylvanas intended to betray the Alliance at the Broken Shore, just like he tried to with the Wrathgate.
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How did you put your garbage philosophy again? “They don’t need to have done anything, it’s reasonable enough that Gilneas seek their own prosperity at their enemy’s expense.”
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