I hate this. Blizzard is communicating that the Horde’s citizenry is woefully ignorant. They don’t know who Sylvanas is or why she’s acting against their own interests. As with the Orc Grunt from the Ashenvale Warfront cinematic who didn’t know Malfurion could kill 5 people on his own, the Horde’s citizenry simply has no idea of what’s going on outside their own little bubble.
No. Thrall does not say what he is doing is wrong. He believes he is doing the right thing by acting against Sylvanas.
It isn’t. Overreacting to a fictional genocide is silly–but you haven’t even endeavored to establish that.
Then it’s a good thing Sev never said that. Sev said:
So, by her logic, me ‘not caring about or even enjoying’ Ramsey Bolton’s rampage is perfectly fine. However, if I then go about saying that Ramsey was a misunderstood flower who made the ethical call at every turn–she would probably say that my ethical compass is crooked.
And, again, Sev herself entitles people to ‘enjoying a game with genocides’. You are conflating people’s emotional reactions with their intellectual positions. You have built yourself a Straw-Sereven–and that consequence is that your response:
This is quite implicit in any discussion on this topic. Otherwise, I imagine, Sereven would consider the WoW writers as horrible instigators of genocide. Sereven clearly doesn’t. We both know that. So just don’t.
Oh Veloran. First you make incorrect claims about what A Good War says about the state of the Horde’s outposts in Ashenvale. Then you bring up a Warsong “settlement” (Labor Camp) that had no lore between MoP and BfA, nor was it ever mentioned in A Good War, Elegy, or the in game War of the Thorns Event as evidence that Horde hadn’t left Ashenvale after MoP. And now you’re blatantly ignoring lore again to try to save face.
Frankly, I’m kind of tired now of trying to fish your head out of the sand. You might be a lost cause.
A Good War literally does not say it was in ruins, the quote I used earlier was literally from the novella. Elegy does, but again, that can be attributed to the Alliance’s lack of intelligence.
It was a settlement, as large as most in the game, larger even. And it doesn’t really matter that we haven’t gotten updates on it, given nothing has stated it was abandoned.
Once more, that quote from Tyrande does not prove anything for your argument. Her suggesting a term doesn’t mean it was actually part of the treaty. Why can’t you just argue honestly and stop making declarative statements that don’t have factual backing?
It’d be nice if you’d at least reply to things I actually say, and remain true to your stated ethos when doing so. Thanks.
The Alliance doesn’t commit genocide, not nearly as easily as you’re implying. I think Garithos has been thoroughly flesh out at this point. Though I still find it hard to believe Dalaran would’ve gone along willingly with imprisoning one of their own at the word of a human with zero magic, and no ties to them. As for the Forsaken…yea, that’s kind of expected. They’re walking corpses, abominations to both the Light and nature, two things the Alliance follows very prominently. Wiping out an army of violent zombies that want to also turn you into zombies seems like very common sense. Especially when they burn mah tree.
As for orcs and trolls, again, remember what said orcs and trolls have been doing to the Alliance literally since they set foot on the planet. Well, maybe not the trolls at first, but at this point I think everyone just loops them into one.
As far as the tauren go, that’s more of guessing game. Sometimes, we’re told that before everything went to hell, they coexisted peacefully. Perhaps the night elves were aware of what they were attempting in Mashan’she? Told them not to screw with nature, perhaps? I can see the stubborn bull men trying to wake their god up anyways, despite the wise old elf warnings, and that being enough for the elves to write them off, as their actions destroyed one of the healthiest places on Kalimdor. At that point, they probably mourned the passing of Cenarius’ son, and saw the Tauren’s subsequent slaughter as something they’d earned. Also keep in mind the centaur probably gave zero f*cks about attacking the night elves as well.
I like Saurfang, I do. I respect the power of the cleave. But Malfurion Stormrage made a bloodyTitan pause on the precipice of ultimate victory. Saurfang should’ve never gotten in range of him, but we’ve seen how much blizz has nerfed both him and Tyrande, so who knows. Also, was killing the leader of a neutral organization really the goal of the thorn war? Because that would piss off a Lot of, until that point, neutral druids. Wouldn’t taking out the elves spiritual leader be Far more in line with a Sylvanas plan?
Why was it on them and not the thousands of other tauren tribes all over Kalimdor? Bringing up this point from WC3 paints nobody in a good light thanks to WoWs tauren population retcons.
A tribe of tauren were persecuted by enemies. No other tauren tribe lent aid nor is there any evidence Cairne even petitioned for help. This is not on the elves.
Blame Blizz for reduction of scope. The world used to be big enough that Arthas didnt know all the villages in the north lands of his own kingdom. Back then it made sense that a small tribe could slip through the cracks in their vast and unforgiving world. It is only through our shrunken modern lens that we even get to ask why the elves up north werent playing World Police and saving the cow people.
That’s not the point. The issue seems to be that everyone in this forum is expecting the Horde to be all broken up over what happened to Teldrassil when practically every race has been facing extermination by another throughout it’s history.
Thats because they dont conflate passivity and aggression like you are. In universe genocidal acts of aggression have been met with opposition and condemnation.
It’d be one thing if they were allies with the centaur and applauded the genocide like the Horde races are now. But Nelfs not being a crisis response team isn’t relevant at all to that point.
Which is also irrelevant to what people would or should be feeling regardless of their race or faction associations. Jaina let Thrall kill Daelin because she acknowledged what he was doing was wrong. In your mind, this should be seen as radically illogical by the games standards because “every race has been facing extermination” anyways.
Are you one of those people that doesn’t know what literally means? Here’s the correct usage:
Ask yourself that. All you do is make declarative statements and then admit you have no lore to back them up.
The problem is that the Horde has been working overtime to prove him right ever since then.
Let’s think about this for a second. Looking at history I don’t think it supports your claim. Past examples of races facing extermination reflect those with knowledge and position to help generally did. Humans facing the first Horde were an example of this, the Alliance was formed and other races stepped in. The ones that did not get aid were either explicit cases of others not knowing, ones that very likely could have been unknown or situations that others were not in a position to help.
Lets look at the Tauren. The Alliance in the EK certainly did not know and likely could not have done anything. The Alliance forces that went to Kalimdor did not know in time to offer any aid. You blame the Night Elves for ignoring their situation, but we don’t have any indication they knew the situation. When the Night Elves first encountered the Horde and Alliance forces it was when they encroached on the Night Elf territory. And the Night Elves did not know anything about them. This is despite the fact that the Horde and Alliance had been active to the south for some time. This indicates the Night Elves did not have a lot of up to date intelligence from that area. So, it is actually more logical to assume they did not know the danger the Tauren faced.
And that is not even addressing the fact that directly participating in and/or supporting those who are trying to genocide another people is a way larger deal.
This is sad, but disturbingly true.
“ Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you. ”
-Daelin Proudmoore to Thrall before being slain by Rexxar
Edit: Straight up, you can actually replace Stormwind and Lordaeron with Teldrassil and Theramoore, and the entire statement still holds up incredibly well.
You need to post more, dude/dudette. That read was amazing, articulate and so accurate to the crux of this matter in this thread, as well as the story at large.
They should be broken up over it because it’s wanton, cruel, senseless and provides NO GAIN to the Horde. If the Horde cares about self-preservation, which most lifeforms down to viruses do, then they should condone such a stupid, risky, pointless act.
An act done on a whim which further points to an unpredictable leader which is also a danger -" who knows to what extent she will go next?"
They sure have!
Say it with me, folks: f*** Blizzard.
Geographical divides? The Tauren and Night Elves lived adjacent to one another. The others were halfway across the planet.
Tauren tribes exist aaalll over Kalimdor. More than just Cairne’s band, though the Bloodhoof have villages all over as well. WoW shot WC3’s story in the foot here. It reduced the crisis from tauren nearly being stamped out to Cairne’s pals needing minor aid.
Pretty sure all the tribes were in the same region at this period, trying to get away from the Centaur. I don’t see where you get this idea of a massive Tauren might based all over Kalimdor. Chronicle 3 very collective refers to them, rather than one tribe.