Sylvanas' endgame and BfA last patch (Speculation)

One major problem. If done the whole elf series you see that the void elf already plated a taint in Sunwell. It is debatable yes. But when she approached a ton of void beings to emerge. The key question to all that how a tainted light turning into an elf into a void being. What connections there and Sunwell? Which is/was empowered by light being.

I’m not claiming the Sunwell will be destroyed or Quel’thalas will be conquered, I don’t know what exactly will happen there, I just think something will happen there.

But Blizzard said BfA will leave Azeroth changed, and the last patch will probably be as big a deal as the prelude, if not bigger. Teldrassil’s destruction is like the fall of Lordaeron, it was shocking back then, but it spawned more stories for the future. So, don’t get too attached to anything, loss is meant to be felt, not brushed aside.

Only Blizzard can answers how or why. What we do know is that something is already wrong with the Sunwell.

Really great speculation by Pyromancer.

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Lore-wise, are there even enough void elves in existence to pull off a fracture in the race’s population like that?

If there’s more than one, you can have a fracture.

THought you are right in that it wouldn’t be simple to portray since there’s no other important named void elf besides Umbric, so the Alliance loyalists wouldn’t have a face to represent them.

But it could be a good moment to introduce some new faces.

LOVE tin foil hat theories!

And also, concerning the enemy of the Void: is it death or undeath?

Love his video so far. Watching now. I’ve been hoping she’s doing a Severus Snape-thing. Basically understanding that conflict makes us strong and knowing something big is coming. But she’s doing it…in her own way. She does what the living can not…

Can’t wait!

Edit to add: love this video. This is exactly what I’ve been thinking: She’s making “us strong” for what’s coming. So excited to see this unfold

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It’s really great, Pyromancer’s theories and analysis are wonderful!

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Yes. I like his videos; thank you for sharing.

Also, man, I may be off point but I really think this narrative, this story, in BFA is quite good - we’re possibly just seeing pieces of this epic puzzle.

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But why not let the Burning Legion destroy Azeroth? It really seems convoluted to arrange for Slyvanas to become Warchief at the start of Legion, with some type of plan to destroy Azeroth.

Because it’s not about destroy Azeroth. It’s about ruling it.

Sylvanas is not after killing everyone because she likes killing people. She’s terrified of the afterlife, she wants to live forever, and so she needs to destroy any threats to her. She only trusts the undead, so what if there’s a chance to exist nothing but undead?

The cosmic force that creates/rules undead is Death, also known as Decay.

He makes a pretty good case! Time to go down a rabbit hole and listen to him for a bit.

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That’s true. I’m more pondering the concept of undeath as it applies to cosmology in WoW in general. In other words, it seems a lot of beings (Bwonsamdi, being one of the major ones) mentioning undeath is not part of the circle (and there are some references to a circle in whispers/text); perhaps undeath is “outside” the cosmological realm? And that not being part of the circle insinuates that undeath is different from death. Why? Because undeath doesn’t seem like decay, if decay is a state of continuous degradation and eventually giving of their life essence to create life (thinking of a compost cycle here).

However, undeath doesn’t appear to be part of the cycle. They’re neither Life nor Death. It appears to be the enemy of all: it’s not orderly, maybe not even chaotic, it’s not life, it’s not death and it doesn’t have any connection to the elements.

“The Light has made a bargain with the enemy of all”: the naaru and undeath combined to make a Light-Undead.

Rambling. I thank you for the insight - and I like this discussion - and welcome any more you can share with my comments above!

Edit to add: I’m reminded of The Elder Scrolls and their constellations that characters could be born under. One of which was The serpent that wandered and wasn’t stationary. Almost insinuating that it was some ethereal thing. Perhaps this is the same concept as undeath - it’s this state of being that is above all the other “elements,” powers?

> https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Astronomy

Interestingly, the 12 other constellations feared the serpent… it is the enemy of all. It appears to have no leader, either.

Further edit to add: undeath may be an absence of the “fourth dimension:” it removes time. There is no growth. There is no decay.

I posit that undeath can augment existing powers: Light undead, Fire/elemental undead (Bolvar?)…almost as if undeath, not being part of the cycle, and thus cant be controlled by any one of the other elements, is seen by them as an enemy.

Also interesting is that Light was one of the first to “strike a bargain” with undeath (assuming undeath is the enemy of all, as stated in a whisper). As we’ve seen that Light is pretty controlling, it doesn’t strike me as odd that it (or at least via the naaru) would seek to attempt to influence/control undeath via a being of its creation. However, the void just wants to kill all life, but how can the void kill that which has no life: undeath. Thus the void probably won’t try and strike a bargain with undeath because it is antithetical to the void’s “raison d’etre”.

Just more ramblings…perhaps! :]

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Ok I’ve given him my whole day. I REALLY like this guy. Thanks for introducing him to me. This guy has made me absolutely PUMPED for the story. There were a few things that I had speculated that he is speculating, but he is just so much more thurow than I ever could.

His excitement is incredibly contagious.

So I was reading another post about something not even related to Sylvanas and came across some highlights from - Slootbag had a live interview with lead encounter designer Morgan Day. Here’s the part I found interesting.

“One of the purposes of Uldir was trying to figure out how to kill an Old God without killing the host in the process”

Is Sylvanas possessed or going to be possessed by an Old God and we have to kill this Old God without killing Sylvanas? Is that where Xal’atath the Blade comes in, to absorb this Old God?

TBH, I am tired of the faction war. We didnt even get to celebrate enough of the Legion’s defeat. We went straight into fighting over Azerite. Nevermind the sword sticking into the planet that could cause certain doom.

I am looking forward to visiting The Black Empire and that it may still be lingering on the otherside of Azeroth. After N’zoth and rumors him raising the other Old Gods its time.

Your speculation is one of the bests I’ve seen.

The Sylvanas & Old God one being the worst, considering Blizz has hinted here and there that both forces (Death / Void) are opposites.

The Void fears Sylvanas because she would lead to the death of the World Soul, and her plans would kill even N’Zoth.

Even more, I think it was Locus-walker that described the Void as an infinite chaotic maddening force of endless possibilities, the exactly opposite of that is Death (peace, sleep, cero, nada). Death could be a true counter for the Void.

N’Zoth made a pact with Xal’atath because he knew Sylvanas/Helya would use the blade in their plans. So, he freed the entity in it and replaced it with his own essence, essentially derailing Sylvanas/Helya’s plans.

Or maybe it doesn’t and that is exactly what Sylvanas intents to exploit, its connection to a Blade capable of containing an Old god?

Btw, Helya is a truly interesting character I mean, she was the first Undead created that broke the Life-Death cycle and this was done by no other than Odyn! A Herald of Order! (this stories are explained in the Warrior’s order hall). Same as Sylvanas, both victims of someone’s imposed curse on them.

  • Some other entity brought Vol’jin’s spirit back from the Other Side. My bet is Rezan.

This is where the key to understand Sylvanas destiny is!! I don’t think its Rezan, I mean he served a throne and Eyir says this force “doesn’t schemes for thrones or the likes” hinting its far bigger than that, Elune or a bigger Balance force?

So, in essence, Alliance has been used as pawns of the Void (“The boy king serves at the master’s table”), while Horde was manipulated by Death

This might be the true battle for Azeroth, two opposite forces trying to tilt balance in their favor, and maybe Vol’jin is Balance’s champ? :sweat_smile:


A part of me wants to believe she does cares for her promise to Vol’jin about “not letting the Horde die”. Her methods are extreme, cruel, undead-ish but maybe that is the only way she believes we can succeed? Perhaps this Void/Death confrontation will put Sylvanas in an unwanted position with Alleria, which will change her (only moments when she has shown some mercy are with them).

My hopeful Self wants Sylvanas to either, get rid of her curse so she can finally rest in peace which has been so denied to her, or for her to become an important “guardian” of the Shadowlands.

Just Not another Garrosh for blizz’ sake.

Note: Horde side she knows of Saurfang’s rebellion, she sent two (just two) assassins to kill none other than Thrall? I doubt she is that stupid. She likes to play chess/ mislead games that seem to be putting everyone working against her? Not to mention those “everyone” are exactly the ones being hinted to be working under manipulation for N’zoth.

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That’s amazing. If true that would be a giant curveball to what many have said.

Nice theory crafting

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The thing is that, when faced with her history and her past choices, I just don’t see Sylvanas seeing things in the same way the living see.

Consider this:

I believe that, if Sylvanas had the chance to kill everyone and turn Azeroth into a realm of Undead, she would see it as not some evil act, but a form of salvation. Undead do not need to eat, they do not need land, they do not have the “flaws” of living. In her own twisted way, turning Azeroth into a realm of undeath would be the end of all wars, of all conflict, of suffering from the “living condition” she fears and despises.

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This thread has to have one of the best theories around. Its making my brain hamster spin the wheel like crazy lol :rofl:

After finishing reading all the other theories in this thread, damn dude, Sylvanas, Helya, the Forsaken and perhaps the Lich King are clearly “A Gear that sprang off the Clockwork”….pulling out of the established cycle of forces that rule the universe of WoW; which makes me dish out she is a Death Harbinger (explaining why Bwomsandi and his boss are pissed).

And we all have to thank Odyn for that!

However, undeath doesn’t appear to be part of the cycle. They’re neither Life nor Death. It appears to be the enemy of all: it’s not orderly, maybe not even chaotic, it’s not life, it’s not death and it doesn’t have any connection to the elements.

Blizzard has the potential to pull quite a story out of this , hell even a third faction if they want! (Forsaken, San’layn, Helya’s kvaldir, Lich King’s DK),
or they can go the “ditch half the story and just make Sylvanas a raid boss” :weary:

Whatever Sylv Endgame is, it spells Big pissing everyone in the process; Light, Void, life, all the Alliance and Horde leaders, and I don’t think she is dying an not succeeding cause, about prophecies, she has already died 3 times so I agree with Helya . And both Varimathras and Guldan mention death claiming our world and a “she” on it.

Damn guess you are right, she is playing for the big Checkmate.

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