Survival vote?

The delusion here is truly something to marvel at.

Never said I didnt understand, I just simply don’t care. Shouldn’t force strangers to alter language to make you feel better. Ignore or move on.

You have done this yourself but its bad if I do it? lol Kden

Miss the wild west days on the internet… but yeah your kid doesnt matter in my statement as it was never about them in the first place. Its like a participation trophy for a race they never ran.

remember when bepples went after my social media and attacked me and you encouraged it? lol

lol dang. I just brought that up too. funny how its convenient for them amiright?

only seen this on the forums. Never see a single person spew this in game or on social media. Just here. Usually just you too

use Disengage. Every spec has it.

Emotional Damage

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Then you should just ignore and move on. Can’t tell someone that “Anyone who ever took anything you said seriously should probably delete their accounts imo.”, and not be seen as someone who acts in contradiction to their stated beliefs. Is same as telling any poster to just quit for agreeing with another poster. You never just ignore anyone as you all ways have some remark, and the fact you go out of your way to comment to Bepples means they must really get under your skin.

So, then you agree SV should be played at range. If you’re always jumping away from melee then what the point of playing a melee spec?

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As I stated a few times before, If i see someone crying about something stupid im going to respond. Bepples just happens to be the biggest example of that as hes emotional about a spec that hasnt existed in this game in like 6 years. Hes clearly delusional and for his own good shouldnt be playing this game. Trust me when I say this, you cant get under my skin. If I respond to you in a way like this its because you said something moronic.

warriors have heroic leap. So you agree all warrior specs should be played at range? lol what argument even is this. Try and think a little more clear and not throw random things out because I rustled your jimmies.

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Then extremely stupid statements annoy you? That not same as just letting it go, you are reacting.

Heroic Leap is designed that way warriors can jump into battle. Disengage is designed to jump away from a fight to get back to a range distance. Two abilities with different functions:

Here even the tool tip for each

[Disengage]
Unlimited range

Instant 20 sec recharge

1 Charges

Requires Hunter

Requires level 4

Leap backwards

[Heroic Leap]
8 - 40 yd range

Instant 45 sec recharge

1 Charges

Requires Warrior

Requires level 33

Leap through the air toward a target location, slamming down with destructive force to deal (10.2211% of Attack power) Physical damage to all enemies within 8 yards

Not even close of a comparison. Try looking harder next time. Rogues would have been better to compare as they both have a range attack:

[Pistol Shot]

40 Energy 20 yd range

Instant

Requires Rogue (Outlaw)

Requires level 12

Draw a concealed pistol and fire a quick shot at an enemy,

Very close to

[Serpent Sting]

20 Focus 40 yd range

Instant cast

Requires Hunter (Survival)

Requires level 12

Fire a poison-tipped arrow at an enemy,

I would have used this as a counter and said then Outlaw is also a range spec cause the both use a ranged weapon, but you do what is easer for you.

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Never once said i found anything annoying. Just easy to make fun of someone for being empty minded.

They both do the same thing. Warriors leap isnt exclusive to jumping into the fray, they also use it to gain distance from being attacked. If i use disengage to avoid fall damage it isnt meant for getting range on mobs. Go ahead and post the next novel for me to respond too, im going to the movies il get back with you tomorrow homie.

Then your taking the low road out. Going after the low hanging fruit, and not using your full brain. The ones that just go after the easiest mark are just lazy in my book. Anyone could spatter paint on a canvas and call it art, but it takes a Picasso to make a Ma Jolie and have everyone call it a master work.

If your using Heroic Leap to run away then your not a Warrior. You stay and fight until they
die or you.

I also Disengage then turn 180 for a running burst. Was that what it was designed to do? It just taking abilities and repurposing them to fit a new situation. Warriors are a melee spec that needs to be up close to fight, and that what Heroic Leap was meant for, to close the gap fast. Using it to run is just adding a new way of using it. If Blizzard did not want you to use it that way they just redesign it.

What are you watching?

except it would be garbage just like gladiator stance was

Oh you should go say that on the Warrior forum and see what responses you have.

I don’t have to, since it was already said enough times there.

Funny that this showed up as a first topic

the threat summarized by single post

But that would be same argument for range survival, why bring it back? Just cause a few hunters on the forums liked playing it, what would it add to the class that the other two hunter specs do not cover?

Saying that you could use the same argument for both as it comes down to a preferred play-style.

Exactly

/10char

EDIT: I am not against return of RSV, but most certainly against it returning in place of SV. And I am not against it returning as 4th spec either, but I most certainly think there are classes more deserving of 4th spec than a class with already 3 dps specs.

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You’ ll be hearing from my lawyer soon, in that I mean Bepples will be contacting you.

I dont think we are.

Statistically, melee meatheads dont like SV. They like your heavy muscle, platemail fantasies, or your dodging, bobbing/weaving leather monks and rogues. And that is not a tiny niche. Its a massive segment of the WoW playerbase.

The tiny niche being satisfied with SV can’t get what they want anywhere else. There is no equivalent to modern SV in any other class in the game. Yes… there are some specs that have similar mobility. There are some abilities in melee classes that allow them to do a little damage from range. But there is no hybrid skirmisher spec besides SV and it wouldnt fit anywhere else.

Why wouldnt it fit anywhere else? Because Hunter has always been intended to be at least partially hybrid. No, not fully melee like the classes that got platemail at 40. But they did get mail at 40. Shamans too, but unlike the Shaman class, which had a spec dedicated to melee DPS, one for healing and one for ranged DPS, the hunter had all 3 specs made fully ranged because all three trees were mostly ranged and many melee abilities were baseline. The fantasy, the aesthetic and the framework existed forever. All hunters were in some way hybrid. The only thing that was missing after cata was the melee weapon.

IMO, the argument to make a 4th spec, or a talent or anything to make some spec or another fully melee is just more bad design. We dont need another chonky hitting fully melee spec. We dont need another tank spec. We dont need a 4th spec in hunter to preserve all the melee in one spec.

IMO, they should give the whole class access to some melee abilities. They should make the whole class primarily ranged. The main DPS rotation should be ranged. But they need to design encounters to give melee an inherent purpose, and hunters’ ability to be effective or useful in melee range (moreso than other ranged DPS) should be an advantage.

Bepples, you are definitely right. In current WoW design, melee is a disadvantage. A hunter in the WoW universe would never go into melee because all his unique utility is at range. He can stay safer at range, and do damage while his pet keeps his enemy pinned down. Melee can only justify its existence with tanking roles or unique utility. Warriors, Paladins, DKs, Monks, and DHs actually get both. But that’s bad design.

In real life, and historically in RPGs, especially multiplayer experiences, range and melee both had advantages and disadvantages. WoW, in the interest of convenience, removed many of the inherent disadvantages from all ranged classes and specs. Casters don’t OOM any more. They all have some version of build/spend. Mana is just blue “energy”. Hunter’s dont run out of ammo, they dont have to reduce their DPS to recover mana. They dont have a minimum range. They dont have to do anything that justifies their high damage output from relative safety. None of the ranged classes do. That makes melee obsolete. That is bad design.

Im not suggesting all of these things should be brought back, but good design would not lean on unique utility to help melee dps. Good design doesn’t need every melee to have a massive gap closer or multiples to compete against ranged classes in PvP. Good design needs to find ways to make melee inherently useful without making ranged feel horrible. In that environment there can be a great many reasons a gunter would take pride in his/her ability to weave into melee.

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I disagree. MM was the flavor of the month in Wrath. It was super powerful with Single Targets through Armor Pen stats. Survival excelled on AoE… thru TRAPS. They were the master of traps. On Target Switching and AoE, Survival was ahead on AoE DPS versus MM. Putting Traps was part of its AoE rotation. I switched Survival on Lich King fight in ICC becoz of tons of multitargets. It’s AOE DPS is almost equal to DK’s Unholy which was the flavor of the month Class of Wrath.

Unfortunately, most Survival Hunters I saw during Wrath never laid a single trap on their WoW life. What a shame. I was thinking that this was the reason why Survival Range got erased with Hunters.

I like melee Survival. It was interesting. But I already have hardcore powerful melee Classes before like Warrior and DK who can TANK too not just DPS. If I want to play a Hunter, I want it to be Range not melee.

If I remember my history right — I could be off! — SV was the strongest spec in the first half of WotLK, but then MM pulled ahead in ICC.

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SV remained very popular throughout the expansion, but particularly when BG experience came about. I can’t even count all the SV hunters who were leveling through AV exclusively, before that ridiculous XP got nerfed. Just snake traps and orbiting axes as far as the eye could see.

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I’m not sure what you mean by that? Most of the iconic abilities of ranged survival DID come into the game in WotLK. There’s nothing to disagree with.

That was not the reason Blizzard gave for reworking the spec, fortunately.

It was only near the end of WotLK when gear started having enough Armor Pen to make MM scale better. Just like Warriors, they weren’t very good until near the end when they started scaling the best with gear(Armor Pen). Surv remained completely viable for the entirety of WotLK, though.

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How come you never say this stuff to Bepples

If you want to be a voice of reason you need to be indifferent know what I mean

Can’t play high horse while looking the other way on toxicity

Agreed but I’m to the point of being against it returning at all, as other classes are more deserving as you said