The old explosive shot was cool, but its suposed to be a MM thing.
Survival must be melee and the spec is awesome, its cool play with them.
Its time to give survival hunters the dual wield option just like Lorthemar and Rexar.
Survival current problems are just numbers, not design.
Uhm, no.
MM is designed with the idea of a master archer/sharpshooter in mind. Nothing in that fantasy speaks towards the use of explosive arrows/bullets.
The old SV was designed with the idea of a munitions expert in mind. Hence why most(overwhelming majority) of it’s abilities and effects followed that particular theme.
Bottom line is, melee survival has always been a small but vocal minority. We saw that in legion, last xpac and we are seeing that this xpac. Yes, they are underperforming as well. But you will never see a large number of people play melee survival.
But no, survival doesn’t have to be melee. It did just fine the first 10 years and had more people playing it than you do now.
I honestly don’t know why Hunters don’t have a “Rexxar” spec.
DW Melee focused on different pets.
BM should be the melee spec, and shoukld work like that.
Survival should be ranged but more tactical than MM
Personally I find survival to be fun engaging in way more interesting than other melee classes it’s too bad Blizzard doesn’t give them enough attention to make them good and people don’t give them enough of a chance in order to encourage blizzard to focus on them
Yet they stole Kill Command from Bm to reuse it as a focus generator.
Survival is basically the Predator - Cloaking, melee attacks, hunts with a spear, throws bombs, uses nets, throws chakrams and even fires a pistol/hand crossbow. And the idea is super awesome, it just needs some tweaks and a clearer identity (eg, why they got arcane shot etc, I have no idea).
No. How about let’s let Rexxar be the half ogre that he is and let the normal BM Hunters who are not nearly as strong as he is be ranged as has been intended since the start of WoW. The only reason Survival is melee is because that is where they placed the melee abilities in Classic (and I presume BC).
I, for one, got on this class to play as a ranged character. I very much enjoy having the pet tank and full ranged mobility. I do not want to see that go away any more than it already has.
People have been insisting Survival has been a few tweaks away from greatness for years now. It’s naive. Survival’s premise is fundamentally flawed.
No, having Arcane Shot does not ruin SV’s identity. It has that because Hunters have Arcane Shot from 1-10 and Blizzard is in vain trying to restore the pre-Legion way of doing things where all specs recognisably built on the core class and kept the 1-10 stuff. All Arcane Shot does is sit forgotten in the spellbook. SV’s identity is nonsense with or without it. At worst it just highlights the farce of melee Survival as it’s predicated on taking away the most core strength of the class rather than building on it like 100% of the other specs in the game.
I would give anything to have TBC survival back. Hunters are not meant to be melee…at all. Rexxar is a lore character and thats it.
aka survival is basically a mess.
the spec has been numerically the best hunter spec multiple times and its still dead.
Rexxar is also a beastmaster in everything up to legion and imo still is a beastmaster.
How so? It’s a really cool idea that largely works very well. People miss an old spec that is now 3 expansions old - I get it, but it’s time to move on. I loved WOTLK too but it ain’t coming back. Melee surv is fun and it seems to be sticking around.
People said that about Vanilla WoW too. Look where we are now. Not only did we get classic, but we’re probably going to get a BC Classic. And if we get a BC Classic, there is likely going to be a Wrath Classic.
How about we take away your favorite class/spec and see how quickly you get over it being gone.
Most people aren’t even asking for MSV to be removed. Most people atp are asking for RSV as a 4th spec.
I feel like this cannot be stressed enough. We can literally have our cake and eat it too. We can all have what we want here.
Dude bringing back WOTLK classic is not the same as resurrecting a spec from that expansion - it is a different game entirely and has no correlation.
You do know that every single spec has been screwed over at some point, right? Some have straight up disappeared completely (RIP Gladiator) or been reworked so many times, no one knows what’s going on (looking at you, comba…outla… combat? you too demo). At some point you have to either accept that it’s not fair and move on, or stop playing in protest.
As for a 4th spec - a 4th dps spec no less - simply no. Just amazingly, fantastically no. How would you ever even make it different enough from MM or BM or SV to make it viable, fun and engaging? And if Surv is really that under-utilized and under-represented, why would Blizz dump a ton of money into splitting that population further vs… a 3rd DH spec or adding a 4th support spec (healer/tank) to a traditional and high-pop class (like a Rogue Evasion tank, Shammy rockbiter tank, Mage healer etc). I get you miss RSV but explain how it could even happen or accept it’s gone, mourn it and bust out.
You are so far off my point you some how ended up on jupiter. My point is, people said that Vanilla would never come back. Just no, no, no. Not going to happen. A big ol’ wall of no. And yet here we are. Turns out when enough people ask for something, blizzard gives in and gives them what they want.
Oh fun, another melee hunter that thinks MM, RSV, and BM were basically the same thing. As has been explained on these forums at nauseum, despite what Ion wants to say, RSV and MM were not the same. Not even close. So the answer to your question is simple. They bring back the RSV playstyle and boom, instantly different enough from MM and BM to be it’s own thing and viable. As for “fun and engaging”, those are subjective, but given that RSV was far more popular than MSV ever has been, I think it has a good chance.
Because deleting spec that people enjoy is wrong. Even if only a tiny % of people enjoy it/want to play it, removing it is wrong.
Also
If?
Well let’s look at some data. This is as of the time of this writing. (Yes I did this in another thread.) This is the hunter population for level 50 and above. (I say level 50 because there are likely some alts in threads of fate being caught up in this.)
Currently there are
705,340 Hunters
407,757 MM
270,646 BM
26,937 SV
125,139 Kyrian
82,960 MM
35,633 BM
6,546 SV
32,670 Necrolord
12,126 MM
15,798 BM
4,746 SV
514,125 Night Fae
298,726 MM
202,201 BM
13,198 SV
33,406 Venthyr
13,945 MM
17,014 BM
2,447 SV
MM makes up 57.81% of the hunter population
BM makes up 38.37% of the hunter population
SV makes up 3.82% of the hunter population
So yeah… MSV is not a popular spec by any stretch of the imagination. It currently makes up only .44% of the total population that has joined a covenant.
So we’re clear here, you are comparing the nonstop continual outcry of millions of players, complete with 1M+ member private servers wanting and running Classic WoW to the… hundreds? of people wanting RSV back? Noting that even then it took blizz 15+ years and has an affected community that is 10,000x larger?
I mean, good luck with that.
Outcry means nothing unfortunately - literally nothing. Classic came back because of the cost and size of servers like Nostralius and the potential to both make money, and instantly kill vanilla private servers/piracy. If any change is made, it’s due to reviewing data and looking at cashflow and nothing else. No forum posts, no constant bickering - it holds zero sway. The only way RSV would come back is if they looked at trendlines and saw that people who paid for x# of years and played RSV (or even hunter mains in general) started cancelling subs much faster than before and out-pacing other specs/classes. If Hunter mains switched to MM or to another class, then they don’t care, because the sub fee controls all. And seeing as we’re what, 3 expansions of MSV now so if they were going to pull the trigger, it likely would have already happened.
And look, I appreciate the stats, but they just as much prove that MM was extremely well-tuned and the most competitive of the 3 for SL causing the population shift. How many locks still main demo? How many mages main Arcane? How many Mut rogues rerolled Sub? (almost all of them!) Is it solely because one spec is worse/less popular? God no. Fire Mage bangs. Aff and Destro are much more forgiving. And MM (although it’s been tuned down somewhat, but early SL at least) may be the easiest and cheesiest spec to master in SL, especially for casuals.
Anyways, good luck with the crusade. It seems pretty clear that they want your version of Survival to exist in talent paths within MM (hence Exploding Shot, Chimera, Double Tap, Lock n Load, Black Arrow at one point, etc) and MSV to be a standalone spec (and even then, the lines between BM and MSV are still kinda blurry), but what do I know. But I don’t see a reason for RSV to ever really come back unfortunately.
The problem is it isn’t fun though. I gave it a chance when it came out in legion and by God was it so anti hunter that I dropped it like a sack of flaming potatoes. And that was when it was overtuned.
A lot of people don’t find find it fun thats why it has the smallest pop in game atm. Even BM which is at the bottom of dps charts still has a ton of players because people legit find that fun.
Stop trying to project onto the rest of the playerbase and say others enjoy it. A lot of people really don’t.
Edit: also drop the elitist attitude about MM being for casuals. It really doesn’t help your arguments in anyway.
You’re aware that the old SV(what’s referred to as RSV) only started to take shape in WotLK, and was then further developed into a core spec in Cata(just like all other specs), don’t you?
RSV(the coherent theme and playstyle)existed between WotLK-WoD.
Was never a spec. It was a talent in the prot section.
Sorry, I did not get that last part…
Note the title, how it suggests that I don’t want to remove MSV to get RSV back.