As a native Indian you should know that they used spears as well for hunting. And they didn’t maybe used “bombs” people before them knew how to make flammable artillery. Roman Empire was famous for using clay pots filled with animal oil, tree sap, pine needles to set ships, artillery and even forts on fire.
They are done now…
Its really the same odd 15 or so boomers like bepple who will turn every post about MSV a crying contest about their beloved RSV, which has always effectively been the same as MM gameplay wise. Where instead of chimera shot you pressed explosive shot and instead of aimed shot you pressed black arrow (with early WoD being the only expansion where RSV and MM existed with a distinctively different playstyle until HFC made aimed shot instant again because it was a garbage playstyle no one liked). Not to mention RSV bordered on absolute trash tier uncompetitive for the majority of its lifespan.
Dont worry we have those same guys for warlocks who still cry about meta being gone so its not exclusive.
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You side tracked it bringing up your ancestry as if that has any bearing on a wowspec 
sorry they also didnt hunt with explosive and shadow magic arrows bro
From Wotlk to 6.2 in WoD rsv would regularly be either the #2 or #1 most played hunter spec, MM was the spec that struggled to have more casual players play it because it was generally terrible compared to bm and sv at solo content.
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Hi. I boldened a few things in the above quotes.
Melee combat efficiency, what is it? Ratio of damage received for damage inflicted?
Now then, just what are the benefits of staying, not just entering melee combat range? Efficiency? The “hands on” style of engagement?
We see a similar degree of “confusion” (or just “choice”) in BM and MM as well.
Is MM “focused around” individually strong shots or layered amps? Is it about burst damage or sustain? Is it about consistently available tech (as per Trick Shots) or discrete function buttons (as per Volley)?
Is BM “about” Kill Command or Cobra or summons or Barbed Shot or main pet autos? Sustain or burst? Zookeeping or no?
Yes, SV’s tree is in a kind of flakey state, but that’s not particularly out of identity confusion. There are only 2 KC talents that aren’t in effect non-pet talents (as greater Focus gen means fewer KCs and TotS requires RS/MB to actually activate it’s bonus), and there’s no more need for SV to focus its whole self around bombs any more than for BM to focus its whole self around Stomp.
It’s fine for SV to feel a bit eclectic; its problem is simply a handful of lackluster talents and a few pathing issues.
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It’s not a real term, so I don’t know.
Best guess? “Melee combat efficiency” would be either…
- the portion of the time in which being in melee range would be optimal, and the portion by which one’s damage can be increased through optimal
—or— - the degree to which one can be in melee range before being significantly punished for doing so, and the portion of damage retained even under an average degree of being pressured into melee situations.
Survivalist’s earlier tone and wording would imply early Survival was more about the first. Historically, it seems to have been more akin to the second.
That is to say, it’s less that early Survival talents increased melee efficiency (as if there were any efficiency to be had) as merely that they reduced melee inefficiency (the punishment for being forced, at all, into melee).
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having got into the beta, im very satisfied with the changes they made to the tree and overall for sv
Ill give one actual post on this. Survival was only ever the definitive meta and most popular hunter spec 2 times in its ranged history. That being 4.0 bot/bwd and 4.3 dragonsoul strictly speaking PvE.
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Classic-TBC- it was garbage compared to MM (no one took it for exposed weakness be honest)
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Wotlk- it was actually OK at best, at the very start with low gear levels, but it got hard outscaled by MM very fast so its pretty bad.
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Cata- great all expansion except in firelands where BM was the best but still wasnt bad.
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MoP- all 3 specs were consistently close together enough aside from cleave, but BM was by far the most popular overall.
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WoD- same was MoP, at the start all 3 specs was close enough but BM had more numbers than MM+surv combined, until HFC where MM got its rotation “fixed” by the tier set making aimed shot instant again on top of surv getting gutted making it the least popular spec in the entire game even below gladiator warrior…
So you got 3 expansions PVEwise where it was actual or borderline troll tier garbage, 2 expansions where it was competitive but overshadowed by BM in terms of popularity, and 1 overall good expansion being cataclysm.
PvP wise its not much different. It was meta defining 6.0 WoD and thats really it.
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Classic-TBC- troll tier garbage
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Wotlk- brief period of time when TNT stunned it was pretty good, but quickly nerfed and quickly back to the garbage outside of arathi basin road fight montage videos trap rooting people 3 times in a row.
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Cata-MM was the best PvP hunter spec in cata with silencing shot and it wasnt even close.
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MoP-BM was by FAR the best hunter spec early MoP, MM was the best in late MoP unless you played HLS or scatterplay for dispel protection in MoP which very few people did.
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WoD-Survival was actually very very strong in early WoD with munitions slow being super cancerous and freezing trap having a stupidly low cd like 17 seconds or something making it the top dps spec in 2s with a rdruid, but this was nerfed and after that hunters in general were pretty bad.
So PvP wise, it was amazing 1 time in 6 expansions.
Now this is purely based on performance and not how much people vibed and enjoy its aesthetic/theme. Way more often than not, survival has been a poorly performing spec. This isnt a MSV issue this is just a straight up survival issue.
To take a spec, that was historically one of the least popular in the entire game, in a class that had 3 specs that largely played the same, and revision it into something completely different, its only a bad idea to classic purist and boomers who refuse change.
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yes and spears are a RANGED WEAPON. please just stop talking because you are making yourself look uninformed.
warlocks are crying because their damage took a hit with nerfs. their spec didnt get turned into a melee spec.
you started that. i simply proved to you that in life people make bows from everyday wilderness stuff and animal parts without having to go to…
i simply came in here to make the remark that melee survival, if it stays in melee form that it should NOT be the top meta hunter spec. ever. hunter has 3 specs. hunter is and always will be a ranged class. and as a ranged class with 2 ranged specs. 1 of these specs should always be top dps within the class.
thats what i said. and you being the argumentative person that you are got all sooky when anymore disagrees with you. remember you started this. i said my peace and you cried.
wrong, demonology was incredible in legion and was only overshadowed by affliction post nighhold being within the same class and also achieving the most overpowered PvE spec in the games entire history. Who wants to be a king (demo) when you can be a god (aff).
People are crying because they like to cry, just like you.
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right.
IT DIDNT GET DELETED AND TURNED INTO A MELEE SPEC!!! it got its damage nerfed.
your funny.
btw i play every class. its just that as i said a million times before and as others that actually have good ideas for the class is that no matter how hard you buff melee survival you will not get a good player base to play it. its junk nobody cares about it.
why do you cry when someone with extensive knowledge about the game and classes comes along and points out pros and cons and tries to help make the game better? why do you whine and cry?
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Look im not replying to you again since based on your other post, you dont seem very bright. Demo from WoD-> Legion was effectively deleted and redone the same way survival was. Melee or not doesnt matter. Going into legion, demonology was the top warlock spec until nighthold where it was still performing very well, just not nearly aswell as affliction. Its damage was never “nerfed”.
But because it was effecitvely remade entirely, purist and boomers still cry about it today the same way you cry about survival. This isnt my opinion, this is the truth of the matter.
whispers very softly survival was always unpopular for 85%+ of its life even as ranged. You’re on mega copium bozo. Accept it.
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at its height. ranged survival was the most played class. sorry if you cannot accept that but simple google search to various class distribution data websites will show this to you.
anyway im done here i cannot continue to help try and make this spec and or class better with ideas and opinions when you angry children keep crying about everything and everyone that disagrees with you.
bye.
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You/re joking right? Please tell me you’re joking here
Personal opinion and I respect that. My opinion is that hunters no mater ranged or melee should never ever use magic. Shadow magic to be specific. Fire , Poison, bleeds, animal companions are hunters toolkit.
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It was played during SoO because it had good tier set and only if it had bis off gear. In cata it was used in fight Madness of Deathwing, and in WoD it was bad spec. At start in HM it was played in some fights as well in BRF. Pretty much to summarize it for you it was never ever the most played spec. The most play it saw was in PvP
This crusade about melee and ranged has started by trolls. People ask about SV tips, You Beppels, Ghorak jump in telling people how its not supposed to be melee.
You don’t have ideas, you just have personal bias that you are trying to present as not a personal problem, instead like general problem of hunter community.
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While all true, I don’t think this quite touches upon the heart of the issue surrounding SV’s rework (when the conversation is had in good faith).
Was SV typically the least popular Hunter spec with the fewest stackable affordances? Yes.
Just before their rework, we’re the three hunter specs widely considered by multi-class players to play more similarly to each other that did the specs of other pure DPS classes? Also yes.
But could, taking the Legion spec identity pursuit in just a slightly different direction, RSV have been made as different from MM and BM as the latter two are from each other today? Also probably yes.
That’s where the real catch hits. Just as many would complain about (M)SV’s removal in favor of a new spec (say, Munitions) today, the added distinction derived from going melee did not, for many, exceed the cost to veterans from making the spec unrecognizable. Granted, had “well put the makings of the RSV playstyle in MM (if we have the time… and interest… and creativity)” been more than mere lip service, it probably would have gone fine.
But alas, it is what it is. Personally, I enjoyed some iterations of RSV quite a bit. But I also enjoyed, say, Venthyr Razor Fragments (+ Clusters, but that has no gameplay effect) SV even more than those favorite RSV iterations. Both feel, to me, equally “versatile” or “resourceful” or “eclectic,” falling short on some points while still being a pretty fun spec overall.
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You are absolutely correct. In a different timeline they could of gone this route and redid survival keeping it ranged. But it doesnt make it the “right” route, like many RSV purist seem to think. Both choices blizzard had were valid for different reasons.
They took a chance on hunter’s least popular and weakest thematic spec and tried to capture a new crowd of hunter fans with something entirely new.
And in my honest personal opinion, I would of had BM become melee over survival but again, I dont believe that to the “true” path either. Just another option.
(Another personal opinion, when they remade combat rogue → outlaw, it should of been converted into a ranged spec who uses guns/bows to pair with survival going melee.)
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