Survival, I guess they are done with us?

Classes Hunter
61

The problem I’m having with this tree is that you HAVE to take Mongoose. There isn’t a way around it. And if you take Mongoose, you HAVE to take Spear Focus, but Mongoose spam devalues Tip of the Spear. You HAVE to take TotS to get Harpoon.

Being in melee range is clearly the preferred state here, but mitigation is still built around kiting, and SV doesn’t get any additional survival (lol) tools that aren’t available to the other specs. Having more damage is cool and all, but not being alive kinda puts the kibosh on doing said damage.

62

B8PA/pOFauZbR4jaifBCjSrg8RIRAAAIJpQQcgCAAACoERgkASQAAAAAIERiEiISaJJA

This is the build I am using now. What? Wait? What’s this? Steel Trap. yes using a ground effect attack has been a topic of debate, ST is a good talent for pvp, and it works for pve. Why? BLEED. SV has several talents that take effect from bleeding targets. ST gives you that for pve, as well as giving you a whopping 20secs of trapping. So if your group needs something immobilized, ST it, Ice it, and now Tar it.

Also what’s that in front? Oh yeah SS. Even more bleed damage below the 30% threshold. So in pvp you can burst a target, get them to the 30% and ST them. Increase damage, and trapping the target.

Though many things are broken still, there is a interesting path that SV can take. Also I am testing WITHOUT my bonus sets. They will not work in DF, so why use them?? Betterr to test with gear you will most likely use in DF. REason why I took my FAE ability off the bar.

Lets hope for more adjustments, and we will see where SV ends up this new expansion.

1 Like
63

Mongoose furry interact now with Kill command procs. Every stack increased they reset chance by 5%

So during hurst window you will have high chance to reset Kill commands to hit with more mongoose bites with 5 MF stacks.

Yea but with mongoose bite and tip of the spear, you get during burst window you have 5 stacks of mongoose furry you get non extra 25% to 50% extra damage on mongoose bite. That’s big mind you :grin::grin::grin:

64

In a situation where you are kiting, how are you dumping enough focus to not be capped and still be able to use three KCs to get that buff? If you’re in melee maintaining the Mongoose Fury buff, how can you ever enjoy TotS damage? Nothing is jiving right now - you’re wasting damage budget because you can’t take full advantage of talents you have to take. It’s just weird.

2 Likes
65

To be fair, we will have access to SotF and tenacity pet last stand, those in combination should help. Having access to Kindred Beasts instead of interloper would be helpful also.

I agree that having tip and mongoose will lead to some wierd interactions

66

I do appreciate the addition of SotF + Bear HP, but that doesn’t address SV-specific mitigation issues. If there’s a mechanic in PvE that makes you run out, you lose a good chunk of DPS. If you have to kite in PvP, you lose a good chunk of output on target. Neither of those situations effect ranged specs to the same extent, and they have the EXACT same amount of survivability, or perhaps more, because at least one of SV’s kiting tools can only be applied in melee range.

Either commit fully to melee (which they seem to be doing with mandatory MB spam?) and give SV passive and active mitigation tools OR revert to ranged and make kiting the name of the game. Or somehow incorporate both? I don’t know, but what we’re getting feels like the worst iterations of both.

2 Likes
67

Not sure if this is a bug our not but playing around on the beta today I noticed only one stack of tip of the spear goes away when you raptor strike. If this stays, this is a really cool interaction with the rest of the kit. When pheromone bomb starts to work properly you get a nice single target burst window within the AOE tree. You also get to weave kill command with raptor strike increasing the depth away from just raptor strike spam. KC/raptor/KC/raptor. Kinda cool.

69

Just testing if I can post since for some reason I could only post from few characters.

70

I mean, Ima play it because I actually really enjoy it. But like every other fotm spec, itl lose some try hards.

WoW “influencers” might as well be Asmongold. Copy/pasting what a youtuber/streamer says doesnt mean its valid. If this was the case everyone would just adore Asmongold and we all know this is def not the case. Try forming your own opinion without stealing it from someone else or being biased and salty.

4 Likes
71

KC hit like a wet noodle and is to build focus, so it just a proc to build more focus to spend on Mongoose Bites. Once you hit that window you can’t build up anymore damage. I suggestion is to use that window as a way to use more WfB, so not only is single target damage builds but also AoE.

72

Kc is such a lame looking ability, it might as well be a passive proc from pet attacks

2 Likes
73

Agreed.

That being said, if the bottom-left corner worked as intended, we wouldn’t be forced to take Mongoose Bite for AoE-heavy content.

For that, of course…

  • Fury of the Eagle needs some extra oomph, and perhaps additional damage to primary target (else, first target struck).
  • Viper’s Venom needs to (be) affect(ed by) Serpent-Sting affecting talents and/or needs a more reliable way of triggering, if only infrequently.
  • Pheromone Bomb needs to actually work.

But, hey, those are things that really need to happen regardless. The majority are just bug-fixes. With them, we’d start to feel like we have some actual choice beyond just basically-AoE-plus-bundled-crap vs. basically-ST-plus-bundled-crap.

I don’t think I was seeing the same TotS behavior when playing earlier; this may be a bug.

Was it dealing damage as if you had as many stacks as you did, or did it also deal damage as if you had only one stack to consume?

:: The design implications there are interesting, though not necessarily attractive. If it uses the amp of all stacks but consumes only one, we essentially get a sort of nuMok’Nathal loop where we want to get TotS to 3 stacks, spend only once, stack again, spend again, insofar as we can still avoid overcapping Focus. I’d rather that not be the case, but it would be technically more involved than what we have now.

I’d prefer the first, OR allow Survival to just hand-crossbow all normally ranged attacks so they’re at least not weaker in the kite than a pre-specialized Hunter and provide compensation on/via the melee abilities themselves (extra Leech or Leech-into-barrier only on melee skills, dodge chance on stacks of Mongoose Fury, etc.).

P.S.

I legit hate Flanking Strike on the beta right now, even at level 70. I might like it if we had, say, 120 max Focus (without having to give up any throughput to get it), but there just almost never seems to be a need for a whopping 30 Focus generated in a GCD outside of pure ST (and even then it is redundant with all things Kill Command).

In a way should almost be nice that it’s so redundant because that then offers more choice and less need for button bloat, but unlike Arms’ oh so many ways of filling the same capacity (especially AoE) by different means, something just feels off and disappointing with Flanking Strike.

74

There’s a champ in LoL named Samira that transitions seemlessly between melee and ranged. I’ve mentioned Ullr before from Smite, too. His is a toggle, but same idea; he gets AS bonus at range and leech in melee. Not sure how that would work with melee/ranged weapons.

I’d be happy with transitional play, all melee, or all ranged. It still doesn’t feel like there’s a clearly defined theme for SV, though. We’ve all bantered about what it might be in the abstract, but there isn’t anything that reflects it in practice.

1 Like
75

Furry of the eagle should get flat out double damage and still wouldn’t be broken.

Even in current state where you can keep it almost 100% uptime I don’t like its position in talent tree. 2 points to get wildfire infusion. Either move wildfire infusion somewhere or vipers venom somewhere else.

And I still can’t understand blizzard. Why is the steel trap still in general hunter tree? It should be SV hunter only talent as well improved trapping. These two should be SV hunter only talents period. No discussion there

P.S and I can’t comprehend why do we have ranger? A 2 point talent that literally steals 2 points from SV hunter?

76

I think Ranger is to reinforce the ranged/dot capability of surv.

3 Likes
77

I know but why? Why is there need to reinforce ranged play style after you take it away? It was ranged spec, then they changed it to melee (which caused some people here to start crusade and post same links over and over to prove it was the most popular spec of all times), and now they wanna keep it melee but buff ranged abilities? Doesn’t make sense to me :rofl::rofl::rofl:

2 Likes
78

Im not huge proponent of 100% range or 100% melee. Being combat effective at range or melee is what I personally enjoy about.

3 Likes
79

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-hunters/1279513/67

80

So basically what they’re trying to say is “ we don’t know what to do or what talent to create , so we will just buff some ranged damage” just in case someone decides to use arcane shot once in while.

It’s like giving MM hunters damage to raptor strike just in case you know

1 Like
81

Wouldn’t it be great if improved trapping increased the radius of Tar Trap back to 10 yards? One can dream…

But it’s kinda neither in DF. I would LOVE seemless transition between the two. The problem for me is I really dont like the pocket crossbow. It strikes me as an acknowledgement by Blizzard that fundamental Hunter functionality can’t be attained without some form of ranged weapon, and since melee weapons were nixed in Cata, you don’t have slots for both.

They could have gone the traps/grenadier route, with a ranged slow from a thrown bola, and expanded trap repertoire with caltrops and pungee sticks and yada yada, but there was, as near as I can tell, as little thought as possible put into the original and subsequent development of MSV. Always feels like “Hey, this is an ability that used to exist, lets just cram it in here because Survival.” It’s just a pile of bad decisions on worse decisions.

2 Likes