Oooh lookie you posted a bunch of people that agree with your position and none who disagree. What a balanced argument.
Going through some of the new soulbind related stuff.
It looks like the goal for a lot of this is to make it un-simmable. Here’s some examples.
- Refined Palate - The effects of combat potions last 10 to 100% longer.
- Final Moments - Your healing and damage to targets below 35% health is increased by 3%. When an ally dies, this benefit is increased by 500% for 30 sec. This enhancement may only occur once every 5 min.
- Hammer of Genesis - Damaging a new enemy grants you 2% Haste for 10 sec, up to 5 stacks.
These all pretty much come off as "we’re going to make them so niche you’ll need to plug in another 10x simulations to accurately get an average for each one because of how situational they are.
I’ll be honest, I like the goal, but don’t think it can be accomplished. There’s so many different options to sim now, people either need to pay more for sim services to get enough simulation runs to get an accurate measure of what’s the best, or, sim services lose business.
The start of the expansion will probably be fun, since it will all be based on intuition alone, and it’ll take sometime for simming and hard numbers to catch up because of the insane amount of variance from things like the class spells, to the soulbinds (and we haven’t even seen conduits yet). So, I’m excited, but also wary.
There is no choice. Vamp has blink and cheat death if you don’t pick that as a tank you are literally trolling. I don’t get to have a choice I have to pick the only covenant I actively dislike because it’s that dang good.
With no corruption or titanforging it will be a lot easier to sim. We might even get bis lists again.
Tbf, the only argument I’ve seen in support of covenants the way they currently are is that it “sticks it to the min/maxer”. Designing a game out of spite is a good way to have it fail.
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What people like Ralph and others of the stick it to them brigade is not everyone rps and a lot of casuals actually min /max for the level of content they do .
I may not mythic raid or mythic ++ and arenas or rated bgs but I do like to have the best abilities for the content I do and to have the option to push a harder form of content if I choose.
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It’s not about sticking it to the min maxer, it’s about not designing the game around them.
Which is kinda the point, you can design the game around them and around other people. Which is why we have added content for casual throught the years, not juste removed content for the more hardcore. Wow is an mmo, it’s goals is to get everyone playing it and that means min/maxers too moreover when you consider that wow probably got the highest amount of min/maxers for a mmo, it wouldn’t be productive to go agaisn’t them.
I’m sure there’s a way to please everyone or to compromise to a decent level, to make covenants a meaningful choices without making it a pain for min/maxers.
Just because they can do something doesn’t mean they should. Most players will not have an issue with a covenant being stronger in one area than another, and if one is super out of line they should address that, rather than just smash the whole system wide open.
Min maxers have their share of content aimed their way but they want to push their ideals on everyone, when it doesn’t actually make a big difference for most players, just like the whole torghast timer debacle.
Min/maxers debate with logic going with this:
For me only prove that you are part of those that just want min/maxers to suffer because you don’t like them.
We don’t have to smash the system like I said, there are ways to make it acceptable for everyone. And yes if it doesn’t make a big difference for everyone but that it fix the problem for that part of the population it’s still worth doing. Push your own ideas if you have them, don’t stop people from wanting a better game.
No matter what, players within WoW will always find something to complain about. Just play what you get and if you don’t like it keep it to yourself no one cares.
The point of forums is to give feedback, people are free to provide feedback here. If you don’t believe in feedback, I might ask if there’s really any use for you to use the forums? Are you just here to disagree?
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You can make up whatever you want about what my motives are. I told you what they are and you fabricating something about my hidden reasons is meaningless.
I don’t want to play a game catered to min maxers. And neither does Blizz so deal with it.
That is not true, else they wouldn’t make content for min/maxers.
Why have you been playing wow for many years then? Wow caters to casuals and min/maxers since all time.
I didn’t say they don’t put content in the game for them, but they have taken a clear position as evidenced by covenants to not spreading it to all aspects of the game.
If you don’t like it why are you still playing wow for many years then?
I don’t really care about restrictions either way, I just find it mildly annoying when players who are 2/12 heroic and running +7s complain about it as if they’re under some obligation to min/max.
I might not play Shadowlands for sure, but wow has always catered to min/maxers too. I’m waiting to see more to make a decision, not only covenant related because the game is bigger than covenants.
It’s not live yet, they have talked about them it’s not even on the alpha. It can change a lot before release, hence why we are giving feedback.
Once again there is a difference between designing the game around min maxers and offering them specific areas to shine. Covenants are not that area.
I am opposing your feedback as are others, so don’t pretend you have some consensus opinion.
Exactly
/10char
Covenants don’t have to be agaisn’t them. They can work for everyone.
That’s the thing, you’re making it like if it goes the min/maxer way than everyone lose, this isn’t true.
This isn’t my point, my point is your goal is to make it worse for min/maxers not better for you.
Compromise for me would be able to switch ability once a day, or make the abilities talents but keep covenants locked, or make it a challenge or a grind to get multiple covenants. There are many way to keep the rp elements and giving a way for min/maxers to be able to play the way they want.