That’s why his dialogue is bad. He claims to be innocent, and then completely admonishes the people who are guilty. That doesn’t help your case at all. If Blizzard were competent at all, the second line would have read more along the lines of “Those people were traitors we ourselves fought against.”
He’s essentially hurting his own argument. If you say “we were innocent” and then immediately say “those guys didnu du nuffin wrong” yeah, people aren’t going to trust you at all, ESPECIALLY when he literally makes a comparison to them and says he’s doing the same thing. The only way his argument stays consistent is if he thinks the sunreavers who DID betray Dalaran are also innocent, which justifies the entire purge to begin with.
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Meh, I sort of assumed that Sylvanas deliberately chose Sunreavers to conflict with Baine’s rescue because she intended for them to die and tarnish Lor’themar’s rep with his own people (he ordered a rescue that betrayed the Horde and it resulted in him siding with Jaina to kill his own people). Plus, with as edgy a name as the at lead Sunreaver had … no way she’s not going to be brought back into sweet, sweet undeath as a Sylvie mook. Lorash all over again.
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The irony of such a claim as the Alliance players rushes to RESCUE A HORDE LEADER.
Clearly they were the villains of the purge as far as I’m concerned. At best the Alliance has a SMALL amount of blame for the violence, which even Jaina admits. But ultimately, the blame on that entire thing should fall squarely on the Horde.
Also, I dont consider everyone in the Horde villains. At the very least Baine has never done anything too awful to the Alliance and I agree helping him is a debt the Alliance should pay considering he helped Jaina.
Just for that comment I am hoping we kill that Magister. Regardless if the Horde PC takes the betrayal route.
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I guess I don’t hate this. My main concern is with reader and writers alike having short sight or memory with connected story beats this far apart, and faction biases shading it all. Which leads to so many threads like this where Horde players all upvote eachother’s posts in overwhelming agreement that the Alliance definitely does bad things so our chosen faction isn’t so bad after all. That said, The Purge of Dalaran is of course messed up and I like the angle that war only ever begets more grudges and more war.
But I am so very tired of this rhythm of “Horde starts something, Alliance retaliates, cue pikachushockedface.jpg”
Its literally every dang thread in the entire game. (Literally in the figurative sense, pedantics!) Horde start the Alliance-Horde War? Remember Taurajo. Sylvanas sacks Gilneas? What about Stormheim, heinous right? Nuke Theramore and invade Darnassus to rob an artifact? Muh Purge™! Kick off a war with genocide by mass incineration? The civilians of Dazar’alor trampled under the heels of overzealous Dark Irons will have a word with you.
Big. Yawn.
Sure, I agree. I was just pointing out he wasn’t admitting any sort of betrayal himself in the event. Not out of line for him to be upset about the Purge. It’d be worse (in my opinion) if he both admitted to taking part himself, was upset, and claimed it was justified.
Yeah, even Jaina admits there was excessive violence. Which should have been clear once we saw people being murdered in their shops, the streets, in the sewers, and fed to sharks.
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I mean I haven’t really looked into this at all, but I can certainly say you can not support Sylvanas, AND hate Jaina at the same time. Jaina did kill & imprison innocents in Dalaran after the Mana-bomb. Aethas forgave her and wanted forgiveness for helping Garrosh but that doesn’t mean the sentiment is a Sunreaver wide one.
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First off, it was AFTER the divine bell was stolen, not the mana bomb. Second, I can definitely support Jaina and totally hate Sylvanas, Sylvanas indiscriminately kills people. Jaina at least gave them a choice and tried to avoid killing. As for imprisoning people, blame that on the Horde for starting the divine bell incident.
Oh crud I guess I had a brain fart. I totally was trying to say that you can Hate jaina and support sylvanas at the same time. Or vice versa in your case, they aren’t explicitly tied.
As for your comment regarding the imprisonment, that was a covert mission by some of the Sunreavers with the Garrosh loyalists. Not a Horde wide plan. So imprisoning or killing random other Sunreavers with no connection to the event is unjust.
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I meant that Sylvanas is not mentioned by the attacking Sunreavers.
- SI7 Interrupts Horde Mining Operations in Silithus
- Teldrassil is attacked to prevent Azerite from reaching Alliance hands
So… SI7 is responsible for the burning of Teldrassil? Because from what I’m hearing, proportionality doesn’t matter to you.
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Actually SI:7 was at worse simply spying on the Horde. More importantly, they were the ones who struck first against Saffy and her crew.
More importantly, Sylvanas has been planning on Attacking Stormwind all along so I’d say the AllIance is actually in the right to oppose her at every turn.
Meh, sunreavs exploited the generosity of a neutral city to smuggle weps of mass destruction and then expect no repercussion? Rofl you guys had it coming
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B-b-but Nowise, it was only a FEW Sunreavers! Surely this was an entirely unjustified and unprovoked genocide against the Sunreavers! Jaina went too far! She should have just KNOWN the guilty from the innocent with her magical powers and punished just them by sending them back to Quel’Thalas, and then given Aethas and the other Sunreavers medals for NOT being part of the theft!
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I’m glad you’re a Void Elf, and not one of those Sin’dorei.
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In at least one of the versions she is when they talk about serving a lawful warchief.
Yeah, Before the Storm pretty much shot that argument down by having Gallywix’s goons attack any Alliance who tried to access the area even if they were just trying to heal the land or look for survivors. The alliance starts to send troops to Silithus because they need to protect the druids, shaman and archaeologist who are trying to help figure out how to heal the wound.
Blizz is really good at shotting down Horde justifications.
A couple of individuals who were members of the Sunreavers did. Aethas found out after it was already happening but feared the reprisals if he tried to stop it happening and frankly Aethas is an idiot.
If we are going to blame an entire people for the acts of only a few of its members, I might remind you that not only did Staghelm instigate the Flame Druids, all of who were also NEs, but also caused the Nightmare war in Stormrage where almost the entire world succumbed to the Nightmare thanks to Staghelm using Teldrassil to bring the Nightmare into the waking world. Frankly if the Horde had turned up and burned down Teldrassil right after that, they would have had some pretty significant justification.
Lesson being, be careful throwing those stones while your in your glass house.
What she should have done is use actually appointed and recognised Kirin Tor guards to perform act rather than just sicking the SC and the Alliance on the Sunreavers, both groups having grudges that they did act on and abused their authority. It wasn’t that Jaina acted but how she acted. For her to say she wanted less violence was at best laughably naïve. You know who wasn’t actively present in the Purge where you had SC robbing and beating unarmed Sunreavers who literally had no idea what was going on and another SC feed a Sunreaver to a shark? Any actual Kirin Tor guards.
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Alright, fair enough. But it would only make sense in that one version.
I don’t think these blood elves are sunreavers I think they are more saying that they arent going to miss a chance to kill jaina which all I have to say about that is good on them I wouldn’t trust that psychopath as far as I could throw her
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YES!
Why the heck are you acting like this is worthy of mockery?
Holy hell, I feel like I’m in another dimension or something. You’re talking about the basic function of a justice system as though it were crazy moon-language.
When a crime is suspected, you do the work to find out who is guilty and who isn’t. This is called investigation. You then mete out punishment to the responsible individuals, not to everyone who happens to share the same eye color as the responsible individuals.
This isn’t some crazy thing I made up, its what a society does when a crime happens. All the time.
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Well, let’s put the task into perspective, shall we? Firstly, the entirety of the Sunreavers are suspects. I don’t know how many Sunreavers there are, but considering they field forces quite liberally, let’s assume a lot. In fact, let’s give a fictional number, and say, 1,000.
So what do you do with Suspects in a perfect legal system? Naturally you detain them, investigate them, and interrogate them, before reaching a conclusion. Now, to avoid the guilty parties from collaborating and inventing alibis and perfecting stories, you need to keep your suspects isolated from one another.
So, how does one imprison and isolate 1,000 Sunreavers, and then process individual interrogations? It’s a task that’d take years. It’s not feasible. It’s a stupid idea to even try. Much better to, oh I don’t know… kick them all out, such as was Jaina’s original plan before Aethas decided to say, “Yeah, no, we’re not going anywhere,” at which point you’ve got a force in your city that has been the source for multiple treasons refusing compliance with the ruling authority.
So do I. It’s as if players expect Jaina to literally have the knowledge of the authors at her disposal. In the RP scene this is referred to as, ‘Meta-Gaming,’ and is, in fact, a RP’ing taboo.
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In a perfect legal system you gather evidence to establish probable cause before arresting someone. There was by no means such evidence to implicate all, or even most, of the Sunreavers.
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