Stop throwing gear around and rewarding mindless play

Community General Discussion
1485

Blizzard doesn’t take anyone with your opinion seriously so I guess we’re even? Oh wait, I win there too.

1486

Betas never win. :wink:

1487

Can you prove to me that subs aren’t bleeding due to the reward system? Two can play that game sir.

Again, goes both ways I’m sorry you don’t like my analogy I think it’s pretty spot on :slight_smile:

You saying “That’s a you problem” then saying “To me, the carrot always had very little value” is pretty ironic.

You’re correct, neither opinions are right or wrong, they’re opinions. With that being said, how would you know that the bulk of players are happy with the system? Is it because Blizzard said so?

They also didn’t add vendors to the game for PvP, is this because the majority of players don’t want PvP vendors? I think you’ll find that’s not true at all.

You act like Blizzard knows all, and whatever they do is “in the right direction” but as you can see from my example above that’s not true, not even in the slightest.

In reality, as it was said in this post

Again, Blizzard isn’t “all knowing” they can be wrong just like you and I can be. My personal belief is that most people who like this system will see the flaw of devaluing the carrot at some point, even if you’re not a fan of said carrot nor care about it, WoW was based on that carrot at it’s core devaluing that/removing it entirely would be detrimental to the game.

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1488

I salute your bravery for posting reasonable things in GD, sadly most people here believe that everything should be thrown at them only because they purchased the game.

People trying to make logical suggestions like higher difficulty/higher reward are labeled as “elitist, narcissistic or having no life” as an excuse to just be lazy or bad at the game but still get the same rewards as others who actually try.

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1489

I just don’t understand people’s logic.

They also added the broken PVE items I currently have in the PVP meta that already had issues with dampening, that is Blizzard’s mistake. They are not perfect.

It’s like the weight lifting reference’s point is completely ignored by the players so desperately wanting things handed to them.

If you lift higher weights less fequently than someone lifting 1 lb. dumbells, you will probably advance more because of how hard that “content” is.

I absolutely get that, and yet I don’t lift weights and am in horrible shape. If I wanted to be less fat I could start working the harder content to do so. But sadly Pizza is more appealing to me, and it’s going to be something I will have to overcome.

What is wrong with overcoming obstacles to gain rewards? I don’t expect to get into shape overnight by doing a world quest where I have to bring a 40 pound dumbell to my local gym because they’re missing one. Also… if I did that every day for a week but still ate tons of carbs I don’t expect it to be much different.

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1490

Until you have some source you are just making crap up to fit your agenda.

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1491

Dont blame them. Some people are ashamed

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1492

So you want to build a standard to redo wow value system so as revitalize the game.You should talk directly to the developers for imput.But in my opinion,you will destroy the game.Here’s my reason.

  1. It would take time to develop another system.
  2. Redo values.
  3. Remove complex content.
  4. Make the game one sided no diversions.
  5. Redo multi-player options.
  6. Cause unstable imbalances.
1493

OK as Space’s Rogue I have mine hidden but I haven’t bothered to learn how to turn it back on because I hid it when I was very drunk and had some weird person private message me these threats of “being trolled on a troll discord page”…

UPDATE: it was under interface under preferences… now everyone can make fun of my achieves :smiley:

1494

Can you disprove what I’m saying? How is you saying that not fitting your own agenda?

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1495

Click your name > preferences > interface > uncheck “Hide my public profile and presence features” > become alpha again > ??? > profit

Dammit…

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1496

No, that’s just you not understanding how basic logic works. I didn’t make a claim. You did. There are several possible outcomes here. First, I agree with your claim and therefore am willing to accept it at face value. I don’t. Second, I don’t agree with your claim and am not open minded to changing what I believe. I will happily change my mind if you can prove your claim true so this isn’t it either. Third, I don’t agree but will change my mind if you can provide proof that your claim is true. This is where our conversation ends. Because we all know your claim isn’t based on anything objective. So that leaves the argument you were making at an impasse. You presented a claim you can’t support and your argument predicated on this claim dies in the wind. In short, I don’t have to prove your claim isn’t true in order to refute it because it doesn’t need refuting because it hasn’t actually been proven true.

Derp. Go read up on false equivalence. Come back when you understand it. Or don’t, that’s fine too.

What’s ironic about it? That just epitomizes my point. The value of the carrot isn’t objective, it’s subjective. Which means if you have a problem with the status quo established by Blizzard, that’s a you problem. The carrot has the value they feel is necessary to incentivize people to complete organized group content at a rate where people are doing the activity they find fun to rather than doing content they don’t find fun. If your opinion of the value of that carrot isn’t in line with their intended value, the problem isn’t in the actual value of the carrot, it’s in what you want it to be. They explicitly don’t want it to be that.

It’s a value system by which they do everything and they’ve explained that to us as they’ve talked about things like AOO/warmode bonuses, iterations to AP over 2 expansion, the ilvl of gear from raids in comparison to the rest of the world. If your primary reason for doing content is the power advantage, you’re doing it wrong, and that’s straight from the horse’s mouth. They do not want people doing content they don’t enjoy because of character power. And they know people will. Hell, the reduction in power can probably be, at least partially, attributed to min/maxers inability to utilize a little bit of self control.

Because the bulk of the playerbase is casual and the system advantages them over the old power progression system that was more advantageous to mythic raiders. That’s just common sense in my book. If you expect to take relative power away from casual folks and expect them to cheer you’re delusional. Such a change only benefits a small group of players that magically includes you. Shocker!

The majority of players don’t pvp so, uh, I’m not sure what to tell you. I think the majority of people who do pvp would probably want a vendor, but I think that would result in (as I talked about above) people feeling forced to do content they don’t like to get power rewards. So no, I don’t think such a thing would be good for the majority of players. It’s not super complicated stuff here.

What I see is you have opinions that don’t actually take into account what’s good for the bulk of players or what philosophies Blizzard goes by when designing content, so your opinions are shallow and blatantly favoring of your personal style of play and the content you consume and completely disregard everyone else. Which is why your opinions aren’t ever going to match up with what Blizzard does. They aren’t catering the game to you personally, they’re making it for all players. And you need to face facts, what you want isn’t remotely representative of what all players want or even most of them. In fact many of your ideas are bad for most players.

You’re free to believe what you want. It won’t change the fact that Benthic is happening in 8.2 and we’re still gonna have Emissary rewards and weekly dungeon quests rewarding raid loot and we will probably have heroic world boss loot and we’re also going to have heroic warfront loot.

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1497

beat you to it! Appreciate it tho! :slightly_smiling_face:

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1498

It’s as if endgame content doesn’t exist at all in this person’s opinion. I would like to take this moment to state my disagreement.

Also raiding is boring and PVP is my fav endgame stuff.

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1499

This is something that has always bothered me. I get not everyone is good at games, let alone games that have multiple options when faced with a challenge. I get that some people blame their own inabilities on poor design (yet ignore actual accepted design staples like progression and difficulty vs reward)… but to hurt the design of classes, especially in the non-rotational department when it comes to utility, defensives or even flavor, is asinine. I get that some people struggle with things more then others, but it’s been rare (though existing true) when a class becomes overly complicated. But even then I doubt the person getting confused is doing content that would require max output.
Though I have to admit I think the real reason for pruning is more to due with making it easier to balance for their eSport ‘excitement’ theyve had for a while now.

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1500

I’m not fond of the rotation in BFA either coupled by long GCD’s,liked it better in legion.

1501

And then they get an M+ tournament with 2 outlaw rogues, rdruid, prot war, and some other 1-3 class/specs for the ENTIRE tournament… and a PVP tournament with nothing but rdruids and MW monks healing… It’s a shame.

1502

Because you can’t have multiple classes with competitive play, you either end up with a meta or you end up with all the classes being the same. Having a meta is fine, but when you design the game around it everything else suffers as we’ve seen. Its easier in pvp games because you can create a rock paper scissors dynamic at least. Or even in smash you can rely on the play themselves, but RPGs are different. Looking at a game like FEH, though mobile, always tries to counter the meta with units that combat that meta. People might find R/P/S balancing annoying, but it at least allows from the individual classes to flourish without hurting the game for the sake of a mode that 99% of the people playing it could care less about.
This isn’t to say I’m against pvp, or even leader boards. But I think there is something to be said that the more you try and focus on balancing the meta, the more it conflicts with the core draws of an RPG (immersion and identity)

1503

true… I think I’m just a bit triggered because rdruid/tank trinket meta means super dampening which means games take forever :laughing:

1504

Whether you disagree isn’t relevant. What is is that all the data we’ve ever had shows that most people don’t do organized group content. Which leaves us with the majority of players not doing organized raiding or pvp. And this isn’t shocking or a revelation or anything, most games out there that are comparable (mmo’s) the people who raid or pvp are never the bulk of the playerbase. They like to think that they are and they often flood the forums of such games with so much noise claiming they know what’s best for the game, but in the end game companies intentionally choose not to cater to them because, well, they aren’t. And the things they want are often times things that would result in negative changes to the game for the bulk of players. Because they want to create arbitrary power systems that advantage them over everyone else because they just want to have something to point at to explain why they’re better than others even when that thing is an arbitrary construct they had a hand in making.

As someone who claims that PvP is your favorite endgame stuff you should know this. These aren’t new lessons in that arena, pun intended. They implemented templates because people didn’t want gear to be the end all be all in pvp. And then they removed them because people also wanted gear to matter and didn’t like the lack of player agency. The truth is they didn’t want either of those things, they just had excuses about why they weren’t as awesome as they think they are and when those excuses were removed they still weren’t as awesome as they think they are. In that case they listened to people that aren’t casuals and it bit them in the behind. They put a ton of work into developing a system that pvp’ers said they wanted and then those same people freaked out about after the fact, so much so that they decided to remove it. So no, it’s not shocking they absolutely don’t listen to the vocal minority in the pvp community again.

1 Like