Glad you love it.
Hello kitty island adventure is a extremely fun and enjoyable game, it is non toxic and doesnt cater to a handful of try hard sweatlords. Its how a game should be not how wow is with its toxic gatekeeping elitism
Pretty sure heâs just trolling.
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You cant handle my sweat. Do you even lift?
Thats pretty rude esp when i agree with you, but guess youre no different than the other toxic gatekeeping elitist in this thread.
Youâre the ones who canât comprehend that a two night raid schedule is considered casual by the majority.
Trying to educate these solo players itâs tough. Also killing time at work is fun.
When factoring when aotc guilds raid to prove that two night raiding is a thing itâs not a specialized player pool because we arenât factoring in the people that donât raid.
Like youâre not half as smart as you think you are.
Keep up the deflecting and goal post moving as itâs pretty entertaining watching you embarrass yourself.
It has been interesting talking to you about this. I donât suspect weâll end up agreeing on most of this stuff but getting into the meatier discussion past the soundbites I think youâve got some mostly reasonable takes. I think a lot of the problem with the whole casual raider/PvPer/ key pusher conversation is the community basically has 2 types of player (hardcore and casual). Obviously hardcore players play a lot and take the game pretty seriously. Casual is a bit harder to nail down because some people look more at (or entirely) the time played aspect and some at the seriousness aspect. I look more at the time played aspect because some people are just good. They donât try particularly hard, they donât really play that much. Theyâre just talented. Semi-hardcore isnât really talked about, which I suppose would entail doing one of the two aspects of being hardcore. With this any casual could become semi-hardcore by taking some aspect of the endgame game fairly seriously OR by playing a lot. I suspect this doesnât really exist in the community discussion because being âcasualâ is a very convenient excuse for not accomplishing something.
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But youâre not factoring in the people that donât log, and you donât have a statistic that proves most groups have at least one raid logger. Do you see now where your argument clearly falls apart?
At least I know that I canât word vomit links and statistics without substantiating that evidence, which is typically common sense.
Nothing was moved, my guy. My point has remained the same from the start. Youâre just bad at arguing lmao
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I agree, and thatâs really where my point is coming from.
If we are to act like World of Warcraft and its player base is representative of a society, then most assuredly you will have the people who are naturally good at something. You will have people that are bad, but between them will exist the majority, which is just average, and I think that is where most players, especially casuals, fall. They are not good at the game, and they are not bad. They are just average, but because they are average, they will have to put more time into the game in order to be at the level that players who are naturally good are at.
So while I donât want to discredit the people who came here and said that they were totally capable of pushing AOTC while still being within those casual parameters, I donât think that they are necessarily emblematic of any kind of trend. I think they are the exception and should be treated as such.
Because if AOTC could be done by the average player, then it wouldnât be AOTC. The very term refers to performing at a level above most players. Does that make sense?
I donât have statistics to back up my argument, but I think itâs logically sound in that regard.
Well said AOTC literally means above the average player. Obvs that meant something at one point but now with how blizzard encourages pay to win with wow tokens and other such nonsense its hard to take anyone with it seriously but for the 1% of players that can get it legitimately they are well above the causal playerbase and its insane to think other wise. Blizzard has forgotten us other 99% who want to just have a fun time playing the game and not spend weeks to research a raid on a outside website. This game is far to complicated at this point and it just drives away the casuals farther farther away. But thats what toxic Ion wants only tryhard sweatlords playing the game
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But it doesnât fall apart. If the majority log then the minority that donât doesnât change the fact that raiding two nights a week is raiding casually.
The players that donât actually play the game are the clueless ones saying raiding two nights a week isnât raiding casually.
Where is your statistic that states the majority of raiders log? When are you going to develop a comprehensive argument that is based on logic and reason instead of hinging your arguments on statistics that have been invalidated?
And again nobody is talking about guild raiding activity. We are talking about the activity of individual raiders which we donât have statistics for, so again your argument means literally nothing. Iâm actually embarrassed for you.
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Because if AOTC could be done by the average player, then it wouldnât be AOTC. The very term refers to performing at a level above most players. Does that make sense?
Now this bit here is where things start getting interesting from a numbers standpoint and where our⌠not entirely complete picture of what is going on starts to cause problems. I think data from warcraft logs is going to be mostly accurate for the heroic raiding community and almost entirely accurate for the mythic community. I am not really part of the normal one so on that subject I canât really say. In terms of AOTC heroic is where that comes from and I am under the impression it is at least mostly accurate so Iâll stick to that. In the heroic community 7251 guilds have killed jailer and gotten AOTC. 12199 have killed guardian on heroic. By this most guilds who bother to raid heroic manage to get AOTC. Unfortunately guilds that donât make it all the way through heroic are also the ones that are most likely to not bother logging kills. Thus, the first question is how wrong can the data be and that still be theoretically true (a couple of things that we canât really track like different raid sizes in heroic and what is going on with people raiding on multiple characters.) ? That would mean 14,503 guilds would have had to guardian and no extra guilds be added to killing jailer in order for the assertion to be patently false. That would entail 15.9% of heroic guilds not logging kills and 100% of AOTC guilds logging kills. That sounds like a lot but not unrealistic so for the sake of argument Iâll say if you raid heroic you are about as likely to get AOTC as you are to not.
This then begs the second question for which there is no data. Is the average WoW player incapable of being a slightly above average heroic raider without sinking âhardcoreâ amounts of time into the game on a weekly basis? To answer this with any confidence frankly youâd have to run an experiment. Our own biases about the community and about how hard heroic really is than any data we might think we have. Personally, I think the difficulty of post nerf heroic, especially final nerf heroic in the case of the last bosses demands a level of ability that is achievable by the average player without putting a hardcore amount of time into the game making it achievable by your average player. It would be my assertion that most simply do not try to get AOTC.
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Why would they? They want the game to die so they can move on from it. The people in charge have no love for this universe, itâs evident by the way theyâve treated Diablo, Hots, and Overwatch. They only care about money, which is why Cod is their focus. If DF fails, wow will go into maintenance mode.
This is definitely interesting. I would concede my argument about Warcraft Logs not being reliable for this if true, but as you so pointed out, it still doesnât illustrate many of the deeper statistics that I am personally interested in, which is how much the average raider had to play to reach that point, how much they play outside of the raids, etc. We donât have those statistics so weâll never get that answer, but I do think you have made this point much clearer and more coherently than most people in this thread.
I think the idea that it is easier and more accessible is definitely something that youâre probably not off-base about, though I have to wonder how many casual players in this game actually pay attention to that.
And Iâve also said this. Iâve always said that there are two parts to being casual: One is playing the game for short, intermittent periods, and the other is being disinterested in pursuing higher play.
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Itâs blizzard. They started with frat boy and geeky approach towards game. Today they are trying to make this game casual friendly but itâs to late to do it. 
Just get good
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Pretty sure if you tried saying this to anyone face-to-face theyâd laugh you out of the conversation.
Rudly is poking holes in your logic and it isnât holding up.
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Heâd have to have logic applied to his argument in the first place. Most of his arguments are brute forcing his way through discourse by supplying links that are entirely irrelevant and then insulting your intellect. Thereâs no logic or reason because he doesnât understand what it means.
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