I mean, if you refuse to take left turns on your way to work, get in 10 accidents, and stop for safety at every green light you’re going to be late. Doesn’t mean you need to exceed the speed limit to get to work on time.
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Sounds like a pretty bad group. Maybe they’re the problem, and not the timer?
Even with poor routing, couple of deaths, maybe one wipe on a boss, you can still clear fine. Most of the dungeons are not tuned with so tight of a timer that playing less than perfectly means you’ll never beat the timer.
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I’ve had literal full wipes and run backs on GD at higher than 15 and we still +2’d the key.
No, you can pull pack per pack by pressing W, play far from perfect and still time keys on +15.
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It depends. If you die 4-5 minutes into Skulloc then yeah, key in shambles, but taking a few extra minutes here and there and having deaths is fine.
My healer buddy tanked +20s on like 4 alts of his and put the bare minimum effort into every dungeons and basically just walked in a straight line and it was fine.
Which is why it’s always silly to see people get all bent out of shape over routing in a +11
This is just not true. I’ve timed multiple +20 and above keys this expansion that had 20+ deaths and multiple boss wipes. Most dungeons have extremely lenient timers even over the +20 level. Timed a lower Kara +20 with over 30 deaths and a single boss wipe on huntsman.
Grimrail and Junkyard I reckon could be timed on +20 with over 50 deaths assuming you have a means to repair your gear.
it LITERALLY isn’t even difficult. just do your Dps rotations pull decent dps so that we all burn the trash. if you pull good dps you shouldn’t even be worried about the timer.
Keys are honestly screwed if people are repeatedly dying/wiping to boss mechanics etc, and in that case is it really the timers fault for pressuring you?
Nah it’s because your clearly actually don’t know what you’re talking about. You can disagree and still know what you’re talking about.
Unfortunately for you that’s not the case here.
If you’re missing time on 15s with <20 deaths, ask your dps to stop saving cds for bosses only
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I really do NOT like timed content; I like being able to take my time and relax along the way, or at least take a breather every now and then. I wouldn’t advocate for its removal in M+, though.
I’d rather there be some other option when you put in a key; you can choose to run the instance with the timer as normal, or bump the difficulty by +2 (or whatever feels appropriate) and run without it. Players that continue to run with timers will feel no change (as well as having the benefit of spending less time in the instance by design), and us slow people can take their time while still having a challenge appropriate to the level of the key, and have an alternate route of earning the same rewards.
edit: or maybe instead of an arbitrary difficulty level increase, there’s a specific affix that timer-skipping groups have to deal with in addition to the usual ones.
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I’m honestly scared to see the groups you folks run with. lol
You can knock a 15 out without being in a hurry without any issue at all. Nothing remotely close to perfect play is required.
15s are a complete joke.
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I honestly think a pug is WAY more likely to fail and wipe against normal Lords of Dread than a +15 key.
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100%. I’ve helped a friend’s guild in the past and when the among us phase came up they all murdered one another. Funny, but not conducive to success.
The folks insisting that 15s are hard must have had some really bad groups. My group has chilled in 15s for fun while doing shots. They’re a joke. 
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If you have top flight meta dps? Sure. I’ve finished 15+ keys with tons of time to spare. Smooth as silk.
Bring a friend who isn’t the best dps and watch those run times slow way down. Suddenly the run back from a wipe can cost the key.
Not saying keys can’t be fast, I’m saying dependent on dungeon, affixes, comp, and performance, timing them isn’t as nonchalant as you suggest.
Looking at that Paladin’s failure in Lower Kara last night :
Looks like a complete and utter failure between Opera dead and Moroes dead. Like legit 19 minute from Opera to Moroes. Probably due a wipe on Moroes, or multiple wipes on Moroes.
So basically 15 Moroes killed them. Now the question is, how does one wipe to 15 Moroes. Like legit pull 1 add at a time.
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Nope, didn’t wipe on any bosses. We took a different route after Opera that didn’t work out, the healer died randomly several times, and steathing past Maiden’s hallway got bungled and took a long time.
I can’t even see a single route that would take 20 minutes. Like did you stop at Starbucks for coffee ?
After like 9 minutes after Opera if you’re not even near Moroes, anyone would have said “Ok, just die and respawn at start and take skip” and killed Moroes 4 minutes later, salvaging the run.
We took the main way, not the die and run back way and ended up clearing much more trash that we needed. Can’t just die in the middle of that and go back, we’d still have the 2 rooms between Moroes and Maiden. Wouldn’t have saved much time at that point.
Before that it was a 16 Workshop where the healer DCed for ~2 mins and we wiped once on King Mechagon. That was enough to miss the timer.
Then don’t play it. I don’t raid because I don’t enjoy it. Playing stuff you don’t enjoy makes no sense.
The typical ‘cop out’ excuse. Lol Most of the people I know who play this game are successful adults. It’s fine to admit you’re not good enough for M+ without insulting millions of strangers.
Then go do it. Best of luck.
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If they made mission tables give max ilvl loot, people would say that’s keeping wow alive.
The easiest path to gearing will always be the thing keeping wow alive.
Wait a minute. What more trash ? Like the upper dance hall trash ?
Then why did it take you 10 minutes from Attumen to Maiden ?
You do those after Attumen, or while waiting for Hero on Moroes ?
Dude, it’s a 15 Kara with a hunter that’s more geared than my own Hunter. I can solo DPS a 15 Kara and time it.
Something went horribly wrong in that key. And that’s the point : Press W, don’t play horribly and it’ll be timed.
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