i hear you, but…
why would anybody bring this to a key when existing healers are sufficient and can also help the group with damage?
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The way I’ve heard it described is that you have allies and you have enemies, so there’s 4 directions of interaction that are possible there.
Allies affecting enemies (DPS)
Allies affecting allies (healer)
Enemies affecting allies (tank)
Enemies affecting enemies - Not really possible since it’s the only interaction that players are absent from.
So the holy trinity is largely the natural outgrowth of having specialists in each of those forms of interaction. That’s why those roles tend to show up together and why trying to add additional roles tends to result in some form of messy overlap. You can have a different take on each of those forms of interaction, but they usually boil down to that in the end.
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about 2-3% of characters achieve cutting edge every tier. But I really think the barrier to entry for many people in mythic raiding is mostly a mental one. It’s really not hard to find a guild dipping their toes in to mythic that is willing to give anyone with a modicum of skill and patience a chance.
From there it’s just about self improvement and you will easily find yourself in a cutting edge environment.
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What an annoying person you act like! I will never heal you!\
Whatever tank or dps you are, how would you feel if I tell you to heal yourself so i can do some damage! Leave healers alone to do their jobs!
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well…yeah?
you cant exactly pug your way through mythic.
I see. That number makes sense to me. But it doesn’t really change my point. 3% of players getting Cutting Edge isn’t something I’d call commonplace.
EDIT: I think I responded before your edit. I agree with your post on a broad level.
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An issue that is certainly prevalent is that Mythic raiding guilds have largely coalesced on a handful of servers. So, taking a look at your server Reshyk, there are only 2 guilds that are even attempting mythic raiding, both at 1/11 mythic. If you look at my server, there are 50 guilds that are at least 1/11 M, and many more that are are 6/11M.
hehe sorry :3
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That is something I am familiar with. I’m always surprised when our guild leader looks us up and says we’re ranked like, top 10 in our realm or something. It always surprises me since like I said earlier - I am a solid beer-league player.
I think that I personally am capable of Mythic raiding, logs are still public so anyone can feel free to disavow me of that notion at any time. But the effort of putting together a team for it on CC is particularly daunting.
Its’ a shame really, there was a time where nearly every server had at least 1-4 guilds that were attempting the hardest content in the game, but as the game has gotten old, as the playerbase has gotten smaller, it’s harder and harder to stay on a small server.
I wonder how much of my outlook on WoW is affected by being essentially a WoW country-boy? Something to think about I suppose.
I feel like you’re being purposefully obtuse, which is cool. No one would. That kind of playstyle has been taken away. I am asking for it back. Ya get me?
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It was an enormous culture shock to me. My old server was dead save for one late tier CE guild on it. Seeing one of those guys running around on their CE mount was an event.
After moving to sargeras, tons of people are riding around on CE mounts. It was really crazy.
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I think the additional factor of top end content getting harder and/or more complex is also cutting down on numbers. Even if players are capable of performing at that level, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they want to or find doing so worth the investment.
Long time cutting edge players might not like it but eventually mythic raiding difficulty is going to have to be hard-capped else numbers will continue to dwindle.
So help me understand what exactly you’re asking for. Because healing has diminishing returns and damage doesn’t. Once people stop dying, healing is no longer required.
So if we wanted to make a spec that did healing and healing only, that would mean we can’t have any specs that do healing as well as damage. Obviously the pure healer would need to do more damage than the hybrid healer in exchange for the lack of versatility, but if we designed all the content such that you required the pure healers then the hybrid healers suck and no one would play them. If we instead design the content such that the healing from the hybrid healers are sufficient, then the pure healers suck because the hybrids bring everything they do plus some extra damage so no one plays the pure healers.
I don’t understand how both can exist simultaneously?
EDIT: actually wait, I do know. There is a way for a player to increase the damage output of a group without doing the damage themselves and that’s by buffing other players. Having more buff spells would also solve the problem of healers having nothing to do when healing isn’t required. Would that be an acceptable compromise? Having some healers who contribute damage through buff spells and some who contribute it personally with damage spells?
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It’s a basis of “will you take damage in the next 20 seconds?”
If no: riptide HoT + healing rain will top you off eventually so long as you don’t take unnecessary damage
If yes: better focus on healing you to a % where you won’t die from unavoidable damage.
If you’re relatively low and die to damage you should not be taking that’s on you, not on the healer.
Sometimes it boils down to “do we want an extra phase of this boss’s mechanic or do we want to kill it before that happens?”.
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It would, yeah! At least for me. In my original post everyone kept quoting I literally brought up the idea of buffs or heals ricocheting off allies to deal damage to enemies. And making pure healers slightly more complex to make up for the fact they aren’t juggling heals and dps. It’s just everyone has been ignoring that part of the post.
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It is not guilds I am generally referring to.
I am talking about how the esports mentality (MOAR dps, gogogogo, omg tank pull more, etc etc) has infiltrated every aspect of the game, even at low levels/Timewalking. It’s preposterous when you see, over and over again, dps pulling for tanks, lowbie healers doing dps instead of healing & therefore causing people to die, tanks trying to gather up two rooms worth of mobs in BC TW’ing, only to get utterly reckt and then blame heals.
It’s stupid.
If people want to do the whole esports thing, sweet, but let them go do it to where it isn’t affecting the rest of the game. New players/returning players/lowbies are learning extremely bad habits due to this nonsense, and then bringing it all up with them at end game.
Shiz needs to stop.
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I would have said that they were good habits that those players suck at. Or at least, healers trying to do damage is.
But it’s also not particularly surprising to find bad players in low level content. I don’t think that bad players playing badly and getting bad results because of it means we shouldn’t tell healers that doing damage is good. In many cases, those players may just be trying to learn and of course they’re going to make missteps initially.
bruh, a ret pally could heal the tank, healers are not there to heal tanks anymore, they’re there to heal the group, it’s really off the times where a tank actually needs heavy healing from a tank in a dungeon, most tanks are self sufficient in the damage mitigation/self healing department that don’t require heavy healer healing.
Actively casting heals on some tanks actually feels like a waste of mana nowadays.
And yes, bad players exist but by that logic then healers should always dps to carry the slack of bad dps if they’re requires to heal bad tanks that can’t do their job.
i’m not trying to be obtuse. i’m trying to figure out how the game’s design would change as a result. are you proposing they remove the ability for healers to do damage?
if so, then why stop there? interrupting doesn’t heal anybody. ccing doesn’t heal anybody. should those be removed too?