I don’t know, I don’t do this stuff for a living, but I don’t have to be versed in it in order to know something better exists from a company with less resources.
Rofl. Were you expecting me to track down the technical manual for Blizzard’s physical servers from 2010? I linked a discussion from the time in question, which contains assertions there is no reason to disbelieve.
This has been my point all along. There’s no reason for them not to, they’d rather spend money on marketing and changing Body types in game, than making the damn game functional/accessible.
No it hasn’t.
Direct quote.
It’s not Blizzard’s responsibility to fundamentally break their game to bend to players who couldn’t think two steps into their own choices.
Also, cross realm RDF would exclusively fix access to dungeons. The economy and raid scene of low pop servers are still slow or non existent.
None of that is either here or there, can we at least agree that Blizz’s server are dogdoodoo, and better ones exist and have for a while with Companies with less resources, because if you’re not going to admit that, then we’re going nowhere.
Analogy is perfect. It’s the “just because you had the right of way doesn’t make you less dead” train of thought, which is less a train of thought and more just reality. It doesn’t matter if it’s not officially your responsibility: it is both the case that you have an informal obligation to respect the places you spend your time, and which you share with others, and not abiding by that obligation will mean those places will be dumpier on average because no entity can be on top of it literally 24/7 to perfection.
That quote is about your stupid Basketball court analogy.
can we at least agree that Blizz’s server are dogdoodoo
Yeah sure bud. After you came in hot like a stubborn, inarticulate moron we’ll just let bygones be bygones.
Here’s what you do in this situation. You say, “Manfighting, I mispoke. I acted like an indignant idiot. I apologize for expressing myself incorrectly and then acting like a jerk to everyone who was responding to what I actually said instead of the thing inside my head that I did not express at all. My bad. I meant to say that the servers were not as good as they should be.”
And then I can respond to this entirely new point that you didn’t make at all up to this point.
That quote is about your stupid Basketball court analogy.
It was you giving your take on Blizzard’s server technology, using my analogy as a backboard. In my analogy the courts are the servers, and you intentionally used that to say that the servers were entirely unchanged in 19 years and therefor had been utterly neglected.
Are you seriously going to try to stoop to blatant and direct lying instead of just copping to your own mistakes?
Are you seriously going to try to stoop to blatant and direct lying instead of just copping to your own mistakes?
I haven’t lied about anything. You’re giving stupid incoherent analogies that some other guy had to change for you to fit the argument better. Now you’re calling me a moron, way to stoop to a different low. Calling names because I just keep pointing you to the FACT that better servers exist and this problem exists because blizz won’t shell out the cash. Believe what you want, do what you want, you’re acting like a child and I’m done. You don’t want to have a debate, you want to be right and me to agree with you. I won’t. You’re wrong. the end. Ignoring thread. Enjoy arguing with … yourself?
I don’t do this stuff for a living, but I don’t have to be versed in it in order to know something better exists from a company with less resources.
Do you know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is?
In short, the less you know about something, the more you feel like you know about it, simply because you don’t have the perspective to know how much you don’t know.
I do this stuff for a living. “Improve infrastructure” or “add better cpu/more memory” isn’t a reasonable solution. Here’s an explanation I wrote as to why:
If you guys are really interested, I work in distributed cloud computing daily.
Most companies don’t manage their own servers, but rent server space from a service like Google Cloud Services, or Amazon Web Services.
They can scale up the machine type for the server they want to rent, meaning add more memory to it, but this typically only goes so far, because of a common principle in modern computing: scale out > scale up. It’s cheaper and more efficient to distribute server load across many cheap machines than it is to use a single very high memory machine to handle all the server operations in memory.Now, the part that nobody but Blizzard devs are actually privy to is how their server operations are written, but here’s what makes most sense to me given the server features they currently support — specifically layers:
In a distributed system there is (often) a single machine called the namenode, which distributes information to the other machines, called worker nodes. The worker nodes process that information given a set of instructions (code) and then send that processed info back to the namenode, which keeps track of the states and information across all the worker nodes.
Worker nodes machine types are typically either standard (120 GB) or highmem (208 GB), and are given 4, 8, 16, or 32 (very rarely) virtual cores.
I expect that for a given server, the layers are distributed across worker nodes individually, and the number of worker nodes is dynamically scaled depending on server load, but it’s CAPPED at a certain number of layers, and for good reason: certain server operations are not and can not be layered. Those operations are the Auction House and Mailbox.
The Auction House and Mailbox need to be kept in parity across layers at all times, and players on all layers are interacting with the same Auction House and Mailbox simultaneously. Remember that the namenode needs to keep track of the state and info of all the worker nodes in real time. This means that servers are bottlenecked by the operational load of that one machine, and like I mentioned before, the highest amount of memory you can provision for one machine is 208 GB with 32 vCPu.
This probably isn’t the full picture, but I hope this represents a more thorough explanation as to the reason that “throw more money/memory at it” is not always, or even often, a solution to server load.
Relevant to some other posts in here:
they make billions and run the servers on a cpu from 2004
blizzard still not atleast tried to upgrade the infrastructure a bit
It’s their job to resolve customer pain points. It’s not the consumer’s job to do that for them.
It’s 2022 and the hardware is identical to 2004/2008
Unchanged in 19 years. That’s not “imperfection” That’s NEGLECT.
Do you know it’s unchanged? I seriously doubt you’re correct.
It’s 2022 and the servers remain unchanged since '04/'08 where the population was RIDICULOUSLY higher than it is now.
Go figure, there weren’t megaservers back then. Also the lag was insane on the old machines.
Again, no way you’re seriously implying their technology hasn’t upgraded in 19 years?
I do this stuff for a living. “Improve infrastructure” or “add better cpu/more memory” isn’t a reasonable solution. Here’s an explanation I wrote as to why:
“The MMORPG game EVE Online says it has assembled the largest supercomputer cluster in the history of the gaming, and has hosted 30,000 concurrent users on a single shard.”
Explain this. This was in 2006 btw.
They rent machines dude. The hardware is the best suited to the task. Their server engineers know what they’re doing.
There are no savings for using a weaker machine than you need. It costs you more money to run high intensive tasks through machines that can’t handle them.
Their server engineers know what they’re doing
There are no savings for using a weaker machine than you need. It costs you more money to run high intensive tasks through machines that can’t handle them.
So, I’m going out on a limb here… You’re saying Blizz people may NOT know what they’re doing, and Blizzard doesn’t have the money that EVE has? I’m confused dude. Break it down how Blizz CAN’T do this.
“The sharp growth rate of EVE Online was pushing the limits of the technology we replaced,” said Hilmar Veigar Petursson, CEO of CCP Games, which is based in Reykjavik, Iceland and says it hopes to support at least 50,000 concurrent users. “Our goal was to implement a scalable solution that could accommodate the influx of new subscribers and gracefully manage the steadily increasing demand put on our infrastructure. IBM provided us with optimized hardware that improved overall game performance and increased capacity, especially during peak server usage timeframes.”
Wow. 2006. That predates Spark! That predates modern distributed computing!
Sounds like they built an extremely expensive cluster of extremely expensive hardware. That’s not how it’s done.
Are you gonna be deliberately ignorant here and ignore the rest of the info I provided as a professional in this space?
Are you gonna be deliberately ignorant here and ignore the rest of the info I provided as a professional in this space?
No, because when it comes to HOW I am ignorant, and willing to admit it, so either you can answer my question or you can’t, ball’s in your court, so to speak, LOL
I haven’t lied about anything. You’re giving stupid incoherent analogies that some other guy had to change for you to fit the argument better. Now you’re calling me a moron, way to stoop to a different low. Calling names because I just keep pointing you to the FACT that better servers exist and this problem exists because blizz won’t shell out the cash. Believe what you want, do what you want, you’re acting like a child and I’m done. You don’t want to have a debate, you want to be right and me to agree with you. I won’t. You’re wrong. the end. Ignoring thread. Enjoy arguing with … yourself?
You have lied twice now: once about what you said which we can all literally see, and now a second time about that you lied in the first instance.
you’re acting like a child and I’m done.
It’s childish behavior to lie to (try and) avoid having to take responsibility for your mistakes.
I’m confused dude.
I know.
Break it down how Blizz CAN’T do this.
So process scaling isn’t a “put round peg in round hole” problem. You can’t say “well EVE did it!” and say WoW should do it the same way. It’s not always possible.
I don’t play EVE, but I’m confident it doesn’t play exactly like WoW. I’m positive the two aren’t implemented the same way.
Read the rest of my post, where I explained exactly why I think scaling up the cluster only adds more lag.
So how can eve do it but not blizz? Are they that helpless?
Let me just go ahead and give you a 6 year degree and 4 years industry experience real quick lmao.
I’ve tried explaining and you’re trying to pick it apart, not understand. Sounds like an effort in futility, and it’s honestly not my job to teach you, and I frankly don’t care if you choose to remain ignorant.
Eve is a different game with different distributed computing requirements.