Stop asking for the Alliance to take dark turns or be the bad guys

Because the Horde doesn’t care.

Its pretty simple.
They never have and never will.

If the Horde showed more care about Teldrassil than just Saurfang being silently traumatized by it that would have helped a lot of the narrative to be more reasonable.

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Right but it didn’t.

Not a single Horde character has spoken against it much less to action to do anything remedial about it.
And yet we have these red posters fabricating narrative to push this idea of honourable and good Horde that has a few a bad apples or simply misunderstood.

Like who are we kidding here?

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What the Illidari did to the Legion concerning Nathreza(since I’m positive we’ve never blew up Argus, Niskara or Mardum)?.. Excellent! Yes! Follow in the Illidari’s footsteps!

No need to destroy the planet entirely but hold nothing back.
There is nothing redeemable about the Horde. There is no singular reason why we should consider them as ‘good’ or even tolerable.

The only reason they are around is due to game reasons.

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this is rather interesting, what reasons do the alliance have to trust them at this point?
only baine has show some good faith, but the rest?
hmm :thinking::thinking::thinking:

Even Baine did not move against Sylvanas for Teldrassil.
All he was concerned about was the safety of the new Forsaken.

He probably returned him to Jaina because it was going to be the one place safe from not just Sylvanas but the rest of the Horde.
There was no good will in Baine he is just as worse than the rest imo.

I am putting him on no pedestals here.

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this is… true… for all of them.
even if they were just scared about the alliance counter attack then that would just make them cowards.

i think that is safe to say that the horde is completely ruined, and the alliance is almost there as well if they don’t let us have revenge. this is like the the titanic we are all going to the botton of the ocean :ocean::passenger_ship::ocean::ship:

Drama doesn’t require immediate action. It can build slowly. Both Vol’jin and Cairne opposed Garrosh’s appointment to Warchief, and both of them spoke out. Cairne took immediate action and died for it. Vol’jin considered withdrawing from the Horde, but asked Thrall for advice. Thrall pleaded with him to be patient, so he gave Garrosh the benefit of the doubt. Garrosh didn’t send assassins to kill Vol’jin for no reason. Vol’jin came to Pandaria, against Garrosh’s wishes, to keep an eye on him. Garrosh didn’t like having a chaperone.

They stopped wiriting for Vol’jin altogether after he became Warchief. I’m not saying they did a good job here, but Vol’jin never had Sylvanas’ support until the Broken Shore when she was acting uncharacteristically loyal. We still have a lot of unanswered questions about Sylvanas’ appointment to Warchief. It wouldn’t surprise me if she was feigning loyalty the whole time because she is such a “mastermind.”

Yeah, and it’s still dramatic. They were bothered by it. Disgusted by it. They think the Horde is going down the wrong path and they want to change it. Even if their primary reasons are Horde-centric, they are still generating tension within the Horde narrative. We aren’t talking about whether or not they are good people (that’s a whole separate conversation), we are talking about whether or not they are interesting characters.

The Alliance simply doesn’t have enough tension within its own ranks. Maybe if Lady Ashmane stuck around, or the Kul Tirans didn’t completely accept Jaina again, we’d have something going there. Total and complete unity with no tension is boring.

Garrosh was a terrible character with a flat personality. I hated him. I never made the argument that every Horde character was interesting. If Blizzard wants Anduin to be likable, they’ll have to do far better than giving him the Garrosh treatment.

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But it’s going to be hard to sell any aggression from her to be depicted as an evil act rather than righteous retribution for all the things the Horde has done to her people.

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The Horde Playerbase never ask to be the bad guys to start with but it happen. I do think they Blizzard could of show the Alliance with some darker tones or problems with it memeber states without upsetting every Alliance Player. That being said Blizzard has done so much harm to the Horde this time i am not sure they can ever fix it.

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They sure as hell didn’t complain about being the bad guy when they were winning left and right and took over what were once contested zones in Cata.

It was only when they faced the consequences of being the bad guys in MoP that they all started to cry foul.

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BS. I distinctly remember two factions in Cata. The “Yeah the War is back in Warcraft!” faction and the “Why the F are we cartoon villains?!” faction.

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We have done that already. points at the Vulpera

It only needs to be seen as wrong from the Horde’s, or those seeking peace and reconciliation after Sylvanas, perspective. There is an excessive or extreme element to vengeance, and rationalizing some act(s) that goes too far could also provide an opportunity for conflict within the Alliance.

Trust me, I have no doubt that the second Tyrande even lift an eyebrow against the Horde she’ll be doomed to be lectured down by Anduin and it’s probably gonna be him that comes together with the horde in order to bring down the evil Tyrande for wanting to take her home back.
It’s her we’re talking about so what else can we expect? :man_shrugging:t2:

Or even a avenue for Alliance players who don’t want a morally pure character story.

I play a Druid alliance side. I don’t care about things like “honor,” “moral highground,” and other limited story viewpoints that anyone who plays blue side is forced to deal with. I’d argue that such alignment is incompatible with the class to begin with. Whenever i get that one Horde invasion quest in Tirigarde Sound, i happly execute the Horde wounded. Its perfectly in character for me, the weak die, the strong survive. Why can’t i get more opportunities, or even stories that aren’t a male human paladins wet dream alliance side?

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I don’t think villain batting the Alliance would fix the situation where the Horde are made the bad guys in the grand scheme of the story twice. Breaking more characters doesn’t make a story better, it makes it worse.

I’d be entirely on board for hard retconning Before the Storm and parts of BFA, and even changing the sequences and outcomes on some stories, though. I think the only way to fix the damage BFA has done is to rewrite it.

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What blood though? I mean a handful of elves and orcs. I mean Thrall, Lothemar, Saurfang and Baine have each probably killed more Horde than her. Its Just terrible writing that makes her feel guilty when she hasn’t really done anything to feel guilty about.

I honestly Hope AU Yrel comes through with her Lightbound army and takes control of the Alliance as we go on a war to subjugate the Horde and end their threat. Bring the all to the light and kill those who resist. Give the Alliance a bit of a darker Narrative and internal tumoil instead of this Disney prince run faction.

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Clearly Jaina regrets some of her actions more than some posters do. Which is fine.

That would be rather odd given the Alliance currently consists of a number of Void Elves, a handful of undead, and whatever the Army of the Black Moon is. Or even that the leaders like Velen, Turalyon, Anduin (all Light followers who have espoused free will over slavish devotion), Tyrande, Malfurion, Genn, and Moira (who have all shown great appreciation and respect towards Anduin) would allow them to take control. I’m not necessary against internal turmoil, but that’d be an odd way for it.