Thing is, during the early versions you could make tons of rep and honor, feel you moved the ball forward, have a lot of PVP for the fun of it all without being required to be there at the completion of the BG. Did being there have a larger payoff? Certainly, but it was not the end-all be-all of the BG.
Not everythingâs a matter of opinion. Either people did the quests to strengthen their NPCs and summon their elemental lord when patch 1.12 was current, or they rushed down the other sideâs captain, towers/bunkers, and general, and pretty much ignored the flight leader NPCs entirely. Everything I saw was the latter (except the one time I pushed the Horde to summon the Ice Lord, and regretted it as a waste of time, as previously mentioned).
Thatâs what I am saying though. There was no ârushingâ in later versions of vanillas AV. These changes didnât lead to rushing the leaders. You still lost half your raid to the archers, you still got destroyed in vans/ dreks room with the generals up. If there was a rush it was extremely rare. From what I experienced people still did those quests during later versions of AV in vanilla and they still helped turn the tables of the fights. This is what I witnessed in retail. Also, it is sort of a mute point to argue behaviors throughout vanillas life cycle because people had no idea what they even needed to do at the start of AVs release. It could have been 100% possible to rush the end boss for all we know at the release of AV and we were just too ignorant to do so.
EDIT: Keep in mind everything I say is from my personal experiences because thatâs all I can comment on obviously.
You could also benefit from all these in later versions though no?
Moot. Not mute.
If youâre now saying that you itâs debatable whether
NPC difficulty has been scaled down. All NPCs have had their power reduced by 15-30%.
Korrak the Bloodrager and his band of trolls have packed up their bags and left Alterac Valley for greener pastures.
Most of the NPC guard units have been removed.
Creatures that remain in Alterac Valley have had their hit points reduced.
made a significant difference to being able to just overwhelm all the NPCsâŚum. Yeah, Iâm gonna be disengaging from you there.
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On the phone autocorrect is cool.
Once again, I realize how this made npcs easier to get through, but once again I never once experienced a rush post changes. These changes obviously would make it easier to rush for sure but I have never once experienced a rush until TBC. I know this is a touchy subject but even if you attempt a rush on pservers you get absolutely destroyed by the archers even though they are nerfed to the 1.12 versions on most of these servers.
I am not quite sure what point you are exactly getting at. Are you suggesting 1.12 AV is just a zerg fest? I 100% disagree with you if that is what you are getting at.
My point is that you needed not be at the very end to make considerable honor and rep progress while having fun. Vastly different than WSG and AB.
I get what you were saying. I was just saying you could do that as well with later versions. I think they just increased the amount of stuff you got from the end because I am assuming after the day long AV people got almost nothing. Not saying this is a major selling point because I could honestly GaF about rewards in AV I just play it for fun.
And once again just to be clear to someone who may be just joining in on this, I am not saying the old version was god awful or that I hate it by any means. I honestly wouldnât mind at all if they had that version. I simply prefer the newer one.
Yes ,Nicho, I started playing WoW just after launch. Im pretty sure i was exalted in all Bgâs , so i do have a little knowledge of how things were. AV turned into a zerg fest , not long after blizz started removing and tweaking things. I can only guess that there is a gap from when i stopped playing AV/WoW, to when your talking about. So dont get your underwear in a knot when they bring back old AV ;p , I hope . I should i say âI feelâ that way.
Glad you decided you participate and read 0% of the actual conversation going on and chose to post this nonsense.
Pretty sure your memory might be a little off wack if you think AV was a zerg fest in vanilla.
I thought I was extremely explicit, but here it is again:
I donât know if thatâs what you mean to suggest by âzerg festâ (in which case youâve reached the level of âI disagree with you that it was like you saw it every time,â and thereâs no point to further engagement, or âzerg festâ implies some even greater level of rushing (perhaps not stopping to kill the captain or grab the bunkers, since you keep talking about the archers killing people) and youâre not engaging with what Iâm saying.
I am engaging with what you are saying. And I can only go off of what I actually experienced obviously. Which is why I say I just didnât see this as being the case.
We can go back and forth about what you remember and what I remember but there really is no point in discussing this because I remember never seeing a rush and apparently you do. You can get aggro all you want itâs not going to change what I remember.
Okay. I donât know what response you really expected to âIâm not getting what youâre sayingâ when Iâd been as explicit as I was.
I gather, from your defensive reply, that âzerg rushâ is shorthand for âboth sides attack the captain, towers/bunkers, then general, ignoring all quests.â If thatâs the case it seems puzzling that you keep talking about archers; if the captain and towers are gone there are no archers.
Well you clearly arenât engaging with what I am saying so I will layout everything I have been saying to you and go into the best detail I can just so you donât get confused anymore.
Iâll start with your original point:
So you suggest here that everything you saw in 1.12 was essentially a ârushâ right? You even used that word.
I then said in my next post, that I believe this isnât true and ârushesâ werenât really a thing even with the nerfs.
You then said
If youâre now saying that you itâs debatable whether
(INSERT CHANGES HERE)
made a significant difference to being able to just overwhelm all the NPCsâŚum. Yeah, Iâm gonna be disengaging from you there.
I then had to clarify that I never said these changes wouldnât have made npcs easier or the possibility of a rush easier by any means. I clarified once again that I was simply saying that AFTER these changes I still never once experienced a rush and that the npcs still destroyed you (which is why I brought up the archers).
Which at this point I am confused at the point you are getting at because you are arguing something that I am not even saying. I didnât say the changes wouldnât have made this easier, I said that post changes it still never happened to me. Do you understand?
You then went BACK to the original argument you had saying:
I thought I was extremely explicit, but here it is again:
Either people did the quests to strengthen their NPCs and summon their elemental lord when patch 1.12 was current, or they rushed down the other sideâs captain, towers/bunkers, and general, and pretty much ignored the flight leader NPCs entirely. Everything I saw was the latter (except the one time I pushed the Horde to summon the Ice Lord, and regretted it as a waste of time, as previously mentioned).
And so at this point I am address your original argument once again saying that I still donât think this ever happened (the rush you are talking about) and I never once saw it.
So the response I was expecting from âIâm not getting what youâre sayingâ is for you to clarify your argument and stick to THAT argument and not switch it mid conversation like you did before. Also, I was saying zerg rush as reference to the AVs YOU were describing. I said that from my experience those never happened. Just in case you lost your own words this is what you said.
If you canât stick to the single point you mentioned originally then donât be surprised when I ask you what point you are trying to make.
A ârushâ could be âignore the captain and towers and everything else, just go after the general,â which is what seems to be implied by your repeated references to archers, or it could be what I described. I donât see the value to your insistent paraphrasing. Are you saying you never saw what I described, or that you never saw something different that you mean to be encoded in âzerg rushâ?
Pointing out how extreme the patch notes were was a response to this assertion by you:
Apparently you want me to just repeat my main point over and over, not address things you say. That might explain why you keep saying âit wasnât a zerg rush,â actuallyâŚ
Well itâs clear you just feel like commenting and not reading literally anything I wrote judging by this comment right here. If you actually want a conversation read what I wrote, and then comment. Until then have a great day.
Also, it is sort of disheartening talking vanilla with someone who is clearly hiding their characters. What was your vanilla characters name out of curiosity? And realm. Because at this point I honestly find it hard to believe you when you say these things about AV.
There was a time you did believe me? 'Cause either you flatly contradicted me at the start, or you posted a non-sequitur.
(In other words: No, I donât feel the need to convince you of anything. Believe that I started playing in BFA if you want.)
For the sake of things I (Gnocci) will post on my vanilla mage for a while, as it was the one I used in AV the most during vanilla, and because it gets Padapwns panties in a wad when I do it.
edit: Not that it matters much seeing as they could not even get armory dates working correctly.