Lmao. It never gets old.
[Inset Name] : “Horde rarely loses. I win 90% of games”
BG becomes a losing nightmare
[Inset Name] has left the battleground
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Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate your breaking character to be more open with us.
A question just out of more academic curiosity, wouldn’t Sylvanas (retconned into) being more villainous be a good thing for liking villains?
you forgot
[Inset Name] : “You’re all garbage.”
Then they leave.
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How so? Smug in regards to Sylvie? That she went down one of the two paths available to her? That Blizzard used the Horde as a contemptable plot-device to push her personal narrative along; and to set-up this upcoming expansion? That they had little regard for the WC3 Horde Faction Identity, and really only bothered giving it shallow lip-service in the form of fancy cinematics?
Also, don’t talk to me about smug. For the better part of a year and a half Sylvanas fans have been arguing that she was the Horde. That her vision of the Horde was the right one. Demanding the deaths of any character that sided against her. Saurfang needed to die. Baine needed to die. Thrall needed to die. Lor’themar; Thallysra; Rokhan … all needed to die. That any character that represented the WC3 Horde themes needed to go; that they and players that sided against them were Red Alliance. They didn’t just expect, but demanded that Sylvie be validated in her actions; and subsequently invalidate every single character, value, and theme opposing her. Screw that…
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The Vol’jin quest chain ends with Vol’jin going to discover who deceived him into naming Sylvanas Warchief and who the hand of valor was. So it’s a definitely a point hook that should feature in the expansion.
And with the reveal that Sylvanas wanted to be Warchief and that we’ll explore her relationship with the Jailer…it’s possible that Vol’jin will be the NPC we work with to reveal the moments of the past or something.
I for one am expecting the Jailer to be revealed to be one who whispered to Vol’jin.
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So Sylvanas is the reason Varian is dead, which means she’s the reason Anduin is King. Holy sh*t that is too rich.
This officially makes her one of the Horde’s worst traitors in a roundabout way. We have her to thank for the neutering of the the Horde and the establishment of the council controlled by Alliance sympathizers and irrelevant yes-men.
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What Blizzard has done to Sylvanas is unforgivable. She used to be an anti-hero.
Now I would cheer and jeer if she stepped on a rake and killed herself with the handle hit to the face.
The Burning of Teldrassil was an atrocity committed by the writing team, and, as I have said several times, what Blizzard did to the Horde and Horde players was worse.
Yet, the hits keep on coming. The dead of Teldrassil are in the Ninth level of Hell and Sylvanas-as-Warchief was nothing but a big bait-and-switch.
I used to adore Blizzard and their games, and now I have nothing but contempt and cynicism.
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Smug because you guessed right (or she went down the path you personally wanted) and now you act all triumphalist about it. What happened to the Horde was completely terrible and celebrating your being “right” about her is like exactly not what anybody needs. Now, I’m not even going to deny that you have a point about the irritating crowing of Sylvanas fans earlier - they weren’t willing to accept then that what was happening was ultimately bad for the Horde as a faction. But, getting rid of her isn’t going to fix anything, either.
You mentioned somewhere else that the Horde is getting characters like Thrall and Rexxar back, and that’s great and all, but what have they even done? I strongly, STRONGLY suspect they pulled old fan favorites in to attempt to get buy-in from Horde players who would otherwise have little reason to support what was going on, and not because they were suddenly going to make them story-relevant again. You’ve fallen for this play, when every indication is that their return is going to be quietly forgotten going forward.
I was going to quote you, but you’ve since deleted the post, so I’ll paraphrase as best as I remember: where you said people “deliberately ignored characterization that didn’t support the path they wanted her to take”, that statement literally applies just as much to you as it does to the people you directed it towards. They are going to simply retcon out the characterization that you don’t like, and all indications are that you will cheer it and ignore the fact that what they are doing is a travesty.
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I’m suspecting the one that sent Vol’jin back is the Arbiter herself.
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I never ignored the elements of her character that could have taken her down a different path. I freely admit that she could have. That there were small elements incorporated into her that contradicted the path I thought she was on, and that could have led her down a more benevolent route. I would have actually preferred it tbh … but she went the other way.
Bluntly, if you want to know why I was so convinced about which of two routes Sylvie would go down … I’ll tell you. I asked a very simple question in Legion. “Would Blizzard really have killed off Vol’jin the way that they did if all they wanted from Sylvanas Windrunner was merely a good, shrewd, but benevolent Warchief?” The answer is … no. They would not. It doesn’t matter how much more popular Sylvie was compared to Jin. They would not kill him off to have Sylvie fill a role that he could have easily filled himself; if not filled better. Blizz may be iffy writers, but there is normally a function behind their major choices like that. So when Sylvanas replaced Jin in Legion, then immediately did what she did in Stormheim … it was very clear which of the two paths Blizz was leaning towards for her. It was nowhere near conclusive, but there was certainly a lean.
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But when you insist that this is the only path she could have taken, then you are ignoring those elements. Sure, if you want to characterize it as “I think she was going to go this direction because…” like you did in the remainder of your post, I have far less issue with that. It’s the “THIS WAS THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY HAPPENED AND I CALLED IT BACK IN LEGION SO YOU’RE ALL FOOLS FOR BELIEVING OTHERWISE” stuff that gets irritating.
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I didn’t call BfA in Legion, but I called the purpose of Sylvie becoming Warchief over Jin back then. She was placed in that position to stir crap up. To cause strife and conflict. To push her own personal narrative into overdrive, even if it wasn’t clear what the narrative would be. This belief was further reinforced by the fact that she did absolutely nothing in Legion beyond going on a shifty errand in Stormheim; and battling against Greymane’s forces in WCs.
Its very basic, and honestly very haphazard, story composition. Its functional … if slapshod, lazy, and overly blunt. It is absolutely why I ragequit hard shortly after Legion-launch. Because, while I didn’t know what form the trouble would take … I had a pretty strong feeling that there would be trouble from Warchief Windrunner. I saw she had two routes she could go in Legion. Gained some hope when she made her speech about avenging Vol’jin at the funeral. Then those hopes were dashed into pieces when she did what she did in Stormheim … and then did nothing else.
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As an aside, the revelations that Sylvanas was indeed involved in Broken Shore as a means to kill off Vol’jin and Varian as well (or was his death just a bonus?) it at least makes the issue of Alliance/Horde anger over Broken Shore make more sense now than it did during Legion.
Blizz was operating on knowledge the player base didn’t have. (Or they retcon’ed it to make more sense).
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It also proves that Genn was right.
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Yes, I am at the karaoke bar listening to Greymane howl “I told you soooooooo!!!” on the stage atm.
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She totally was evil, it’s just that she was a smart sociopath who never wore her heart on her sleeve and never committed to anything if it couldn’t be defended when put under scrutiny by her peers. Subtle, slow evil. She was a spider.
BFA sort of just annihilated that in one stroke.
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This is utter tripe, a post-hoc retcon of the sort they will use to wrench the story into place now that they’ve finally decided where they are going.
Expect to see more of these kinds of statements. A good story builds up towards its conclusion, it doesn’t reach its conclusion and then change the existing story to fit that.
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Maybe, but I like her with the Forsaken far more than I like her as a villain, because it’s a more sustainable and likable character in WoW.
This isn’t really Swtor, where villainy is guaranteed as a viable playstyle by virtue of the Empire being a faction. WoW villains don’t really have that guarantee at all, and Sylvanas’ character is utterly wasted by being in that spot imo.
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He says, posting in his own gloat thread celebrating the complete creative bankruptcy of WoW’s narrative because it aligns with his own ideas.
Don’t expect any sympathy when we get the Wrath of Elune expansion that starts with Tyrande SHOCKINGLY betraying both the Alliance and Horde and we find out Elune secretly orchestrated Teldrassil so she could unseat the Arbiter and Jailor and enslave the whole multiverse.
For once, agreeing with Spuddy. After everything about the factions coming together in BfA, that one line is hard confirmation for me that, like everything else in BfA, they intend to just have us forget it all so they can do the same trite storyline again down the line.
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I will happily gloat over being right over you any day, Veloran.
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