Stealth ability doesn’t feel stealthy because of Spy

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

Within a 400 yard diameter is said target. It could mark your current location. Another user runs by in the distance, pings same character within his 400 yard diameter. You can now reasonably guess that between those two players, that character either was, or still is. Add another player and should he detect same character, then it gets more specific and easier to track said player.

What you just described would be even worse as it would be asynchronous, making all the points moving, adding more variation.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Circle-CircleIntersection.html

This is what you could manage with two intersecting circles with known radii

We don’t have known radii and Spy doesn’t even check for your Combat Log range. Spy User A could be running at 50 yards whereas Spy User B could be running at 200 yards. Spy makes no check of this, nor does it set the Combat Log itself. And as a reminder: the detection could be anywhere within the range of the Combat Log.

However, even if you think they lack the code (which they could add)

You can only get coordinates of three entities: yourself, your party members, and your raid members. To calculate distances between players, such as range checks for AoE mechanics in PvE, the addon has to pull both players’ coordinates, adjust for hitbox, and calculate the distance between two points formula.

To get coordinates of an enemy player using the Combat Log you’d have to control for:

1. Combat Log range
2. Only calculate synchronous pings
3. Hardcode the overlap area equation based on how many synchronous pings are received
4. Approximate the location within the overlap area, again hard coding per ping count
5. Place pin

It isn’t just flipping a switch. Area overlap equations aren’t trivial and I haven’t the foggiest how quickly or rapidly LUA can run such equations, or if LUA can even handle trigonometric functions with any accuracy.

However, even if you think they lack the code (which they could add), even the location of that player and then sharing of said information is enough to get a reasonable guess of where that player is.

People used to sell cross faction ganking by zones on PvP servers, it’s extremely easy to find the information needed for even that now. Players would hunt others down with no information whatsoever, simply knowing they existed. This is that on a grand scale, it’s easy to know how many of the enemy faction are in each zone now.

Which has nothing to do with the addon because, as you said, people can just report their own positions and say “Rogue near me” and if a bunch of people go zooming around on mounts, they can likely find the Rogue if they come soon enough. As far as numbers are concerned, that’s not exactly some grand secret hidden from non-addon users. Seeing your Combat Log scroll faster than you can read it with spam of the same message, but different names, because someone applied raid buffs to several groups, should be a decent tip off that there are a lot of enemies nearby. That or the spam in chat from some poor lvl23 that got steamrolled.

Spy is much better than any addon we’ve had before

As are all the other addons people use that had their origins in Vanilla WoW.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

making all the points moving, adding more variation.

Of course it would, I said general location. Not live tracking… I was pretty straightforward in this, was I not?

the detection could be anywhere within the range of the Combat Log.

You quoting me?

As are all the other addons people use that had their origins in Vanilla WoW.

Well, you don’t say? This one however affects player interaction between players. No one cares about Deadly Boss Mods, we aren’t too worried about Ragnaros’ well being.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

Of course it would, I said general location. Not live tracking… I was pretty straightforward in this, was I not?

A “general location” that could be anywhere between 0 and 125,664 sq-yd that is moving based upon single pings from different positions…

No.

This one however affects player interaction between players.

So does DBM, as people build strategies and modify behavior off the information it provides, just like Spy. Same with BG timers, PvP mods that track CDs and casts, etc.

Your complaint is ultimately what people are able to do with Combat Log information presented cleanly and clearly.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

So does DBM

This does not affect player interaction BETWEEN players no matter how you want to slice that pie… No one’s affected besides the boss, as everyone follows the best strategies and it becomes staple against said boss.
You aren’t ruining the bosses gameplay experience in other words lmao.

Same with BG timers, PvP mods that track CDs and casts, etc.

You can get 2k rating without these addons, they aren’t as powerful as you make it out to be. It’s once you get placed against the top few % of the playerbase do these things matter besides casting and interrupts.

You seem to think fighting a boss is the same as fighting a player, it’s not.

[Lhorrim-grobbulus]

If you agree that Spy is not an issue then you should see no issue having it removed from the game through modification restriction.

I don’t understand how you are linking agreeing that spy is not an issue, and therefore people complaining about it are wrong, to believing that the addon should be removed from the game…

Why would anyone be okay with the removal of something they don’t believe to be a problem?

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

You aren’t ruining the bosses gameplay experience in other words lmao.

You aren’t ruining wPvP by signaling personal location of enemies either, anymore than someone in stealth along the road typing out approximations is. That the addon does that job more efficiently is the entire point of addons.

Unless you can point to some negative facet that is independent of the efficient improvement of player communication, there isn’t anything more to be said.

You can get 2k rating without these addons, they aren’t as powerful as you make it out to be. It’s once you get placed against the top few % of the playerbase do these things matter besides casting and interrupts.

Wait wait wait… hahahaha

Spy is just too much because it gives vague generalities associated with players who may or may not even be available or accessible by the time anyone responds… BUT

Gladius and OmniCC and similar addons that are tailor made to give highly specific and accurate information are just no big deal.

HA HA HA HA

You seem to think fighting a boss is the same as fighting a player, it’s not.

Reading comprehension is such a lost art these days…

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

Gladius and OmniCC and similar addons that are tailor made to give highly specific and accurate information are just no big deal.

These are addons that once you reach 2k, every player understands and knows the other team is using it. These players, including myself in the past, climbed the ladder and needed said addon to keep track of our information in a very fast paced, very small arena. To compare world pvp where some people are questing, hiding, farming, fishing, mob grinding, etc, to an arena based addon where the only reason you’re there is to fight until the last team standing is ridiculous to say the least.
Then to compare an addon that gives you an advantage over random players in the world, where their intent may be anything under the sun, to an addon where its entire existence is to help skilled players kill eachother in a closed room’s insane.
But this is the thinking from the guy who thinks PvP and PvE are basically the same thing.
You are the cherry picker from hell, aren’t you?

Reading comprehension is such a lost art these days…

It’s why you’ve lost it, bud. Hit up a library.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

These are addons that once you reach 2k, every player understands and knows the other team is using it. These players, including myself in the past, climbed the ladder and needed said addon to keep track of our information in a very fast paced, very small arena. To compare world pvp where some people are questing, hiding, hiding, farming, fishing, mob grinding, etc, to an arena based addon where the only reason you’re there is to fight until the last team standing is ridiculous to say the least.

Utter nonsense. You’re disregarding the vast majority of Arena players who occupy the sub-2000 brackets who lack skill, comp, consistency, or even the desire to competitively climb just to disregard the efficacy of the addons to make this comparison. Arena doesn’t make you sign a contract that says “You only queue up to compete to be the best of the best of the best, sir, with honors.” Plenty of people screw around with Arena the same way plenty of people screw around in the open world.

This is disingenuous nonsense.

But this is the thinking from the guy who thinks PvP and PvE are basically the same thing.

You keep accusing me of this, without any proof, and you think you should be taken seriously?

Your entire argument hinges on bad faith assumptions of my motivations in combination with “but those addons are different for Reasons™!!” You’re only mildly more amusing to respond to because at least you don’t try to argue the addon does things it cannot… but that’s about it.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

Utter nonsense. You’re disregarding the vast majority of Arena players who occupy the sub-2000 brackets who lack skill, comp, consistency, or even the desire to competitively climb just to disregard the efficacy of the addons to make this comparison.

I climbed to 2k with a few friends before downloading these addons. So… You mean me? Wasn’t until after that I began to try to push past because my guild and friends insisted they were required. Which they are, as there’s a HUGE difference in sub 2k arena gameplay. If they join arena like I did originally to enjoy themselves and mess around, then you fully accept that loss should it come your way. I’m sure the people running around in open world fully understand and accept that everything they do notifies everyone else around them that they’re screaming “COME AT ME, BRO!”, while they get ganked sitting behind a tree in a bush trying to hide from said ganker.

There’s a reason arena is competitive and open world isn’t. Hell, even regular battleground and rated battleground are vastly different in terms of skill needed, addons, and groups. To compare even those two is ridiculous, and you do it left and right with apples and oranges. They don’t look alike, they don’t feel alike, they don’t taste alike. Must be the same thing.

You keep accusing me of this, without any proof, and you think you should be taken seriously?

You are the one who thinks DBM is the same as Spy because they both read and process similar information, right? Or am I too stoned rn and just read the wrong name? 'Cause I doubt it lmao…
We’re talking about what the addon is doing with said information, not how it got it.

[Roarin-bigglesworth]

Not sure but i think if you dont target the person i dont think they will know ow you are there. They only know becasue it goes off the logs and they know when you are being targeted. I maybe be wrong.
Ps. I have had a rogue unstealth right behind me and i never knew he was there.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

I have had a rogue unstealth right behind me and i never knew he was there.

That’s usually how rogues are supposed to work. I’ve been opened up on before too, gotta learn to counter him and run him off. Problem is, I don’t have rogues opening up on me much anymore because - “Igankedyourmom just stealthed”. Alright, guess it’s time to Power Word: Shield.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

I’m sure the people running around in open world fully understand and accept that everything they do notifies everyone else around them that they’re screaming “COME AT ME, BRO!”, while they get ganked sitting behind a tree in a bush trying to hide from said ganker.

Ignorance isn’t an excuse. /giggle

There’s a reason arena is competitive and open world isn’t.

Yeah, instances.

To compare even those two is ridiculous, and you do it left and right with apples and oranges. They don’t look alike, they don’t feel alike, they don’t taste alike. Must be the same thing.

Your argument before was this:

This does not affect player interaction BETWEEN players no matter how you want to slice that pie…

Suddenly limiting the interaction between players to only a specific subset without substantial reason is garbage.

We’re talking about what the addon is doing with said information, not how it got it.

It presents it to the player. The end.

Anything past that is emergent behavior by the player. Regardless, how you jumped from “DBM and Spy operate and impact players similarly” to “PvE and PvP are the same” is still not explained by this at all.

Stop being ridiculous.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

Suddenly limiting the interaction between players to only a specific subset without substantial reason is garbage.

Cherry picking. Lemme pick the right one for you.

You are the one who thinks DBM is the same as Spy because they both read and process similar information, right?

BETWEEN players, not AI.

Stop being ridiculous.

You hardly even gave me anything to reply to this time around, as this is stuff I’ve already gave my statements on. Sad that you just ignore those.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

Cherry picking. Lemme pick the right one for you.

So you’re admitting to cherry picking or is this you not reading clearly again?

BETWEEN players, not AI.

DBM reads info from the Combat Log and presents it to players.
Players then get to formulate strategies, respond, or ignore that information as they choose.

Spy reads info from the Combat Log and presents it to players.
Players then get to formulate strategies, respond, or ignore that information as they choose.

Your complaint isn’t about the addon, but the emergent behavior that occurs when people use that particular data from the Combat Log. You’re making an argument that because more people are making use of the Combat Log we all have access to, that’s a problem.

Further you’re arguing that is only relevant to wPvP, not instanced PvP, because of something something people know what they’re getting into something something competition. You have no reason to limit your argument to a subset of PvP other than to avoid justifying your otherwise bad argument.

You hardly even gave me anything to reply to this time around, as this is stuff I’ve already gave my statements on. Sad that you just ignore those.

Probably because you accuse me of things I haven’t done, advocating for positions I don’t have, then shrug it off when called on it.

You’re a troll.

[Harmondale-whitemane]

It could also auto target for you. Thanks to spell batching, there is a delay when pressing the stealth button and entering stealth. Enemies can still attack you and cast spells during a small time window.

So, if someone were to use stealth, if you were fast enough to click the name in the spy addon and quickly press moon fire, hunters Mark etc., and they were in range of those abilities, you could prevent them from even stealthing due to the delay between the time they press stealth and the time they enter stealth.

I’m sure automation would be banned, but the addon could even automate it where it automatically casts moonfire at the nearest “entering stealth” target as soon as it detects them entering stealth, therefore marking stealth useless.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

So you’re admitting to cherry picking or is this you not reading clearly again?

Yeah, in the sense that my entire comment was a cherry tree. You picked one cherry, instead of looking at the tree. So I decided I’d pick another for you. Nice of me, wasn’t it?

DBM reads info from the Combat Log and presents it to players.

We’re talking about what the addon is doing with said information, not how it got it.

Players then get to formulate strategies, respond, or ignore that information as they choose.

this is the thinking from the guy who thinks PvP and PvE are basically the same thing.

Probably because you accuse me of things I haven’t done, advocating for positions I don’t have, then shrug it off when called on it.

You are the one who thinks DBM is the same as Spy because they both read and process similar information, right?

Let’s do that again, saved me allot of typing.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

Yeah, in the sense that my entire comment was a cherry tree. You picked one cherry, instead of looking at the tree. So I decided I’d pick another for you. Nice of me, wasn’t it?

Let’s do that again, saved me allot of typing.

Yes because “formulate strategy” is exactly the same for PvP and PvE you absolute spoon.

You had a chance, oh well.

[Blindfaith-bigglesworth]

Yes because “formulate strategy” is exactly the same for PvP and PvE you absolute spoon.

You seem to think fighting a boss is the same as fighting a player, it’s not.

You’re a troll.

Wow, took those words right out of my mouth just then…

[Lights-proudmoore]

Question: Can a warlock’s felhunter still bring a rogue out of stealth if you sick it on them before they vanish? That used to be my favorite thing…and being able to eat the negative magical effect by using, said felhunter.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

Enjoy your impotent rage against an addon