Steady Flying

[Henceforth-area-52]

@Julaalu-lightninghoof

We are debating why 98% of everyone is attacking TBC flight. So the question is why? Lets go back to WoD when it all started shall we?

A. Botter infiltration.
B. Unfair Advantage, Exploitation, Cheating.
C. Boring Flight Mode.
D. Blind Hatred of it. No rational logic behind the attack.
E. All of the Above.

Why is this strawman?

OP asked to remove the achievements to get access to TBC Flying, because he doesn’t like Skyriding.

In War Within you’re not forced to play 3 seasons to get your TBC Flying unlocked, you just have to finish the main campaign and explore the zones. That is, in the very first day you can have it available.

And along with this argument, about whether people LIKE or NOT Skyriding, then there were people (some very disrespectful, hateful and hurt people) arguing that anyone disagreeing with removing the achievement is mocking people with disability.

So, the argument turned out whether people were being prevented from playing or not the game. Well, the case is that you don’t need Skyriding to unlock your TBC Flying.

Therefore, invalid argument.

You want another argument?

Skyriding is the default flying and preferable method. Period.
Blizzard acknowledges TBC Flying as an accessibility option. Non-debatable.

If you CAN’T or DON’T want to use Skyriding, you can get your campaign done and explore the map, then unlock TBC Flying, by just playing the game (and you just do it once).

So, what is the problem? You want Skyrding and TBC flying to have the same treatment?

That’s a fools argument and you’re not getting any empathy here, and you’re not going to change anything.

[Henceforth-area-52]

@Moused-cairne

Tell me one good reason why some of the disabled players can not have Steady Flight on Day 1

You can.
You don’t need Skyriding.

You complete the main campaign and explore the zones, that’s your Pathfinder, done on day 1.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Henceforth-area-52

You complete the main campaign and explore the zones, that’s your Pathfinder, done on day 1.

Okay, if it’s not a problem, how about TBC flying is baseline and you have to do the campaign and explore to unlock skyriding?

After all, it’s a quick achievement, right, so you should be fine with that, no?

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Maizou-proudmoore

how about TBC flying is baseline

Why should the mode that is still KING for exploration, gathering and anything else that is better if you can use a bit of finesse/precision or whatever you want to call it?

Either both of them are locked behind PF or neither is if you want them to be the same.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Either both of them are locked behind PF or neither is if you want them to be the same.

You are missing the point I am making.

They are saying it is fine to lock TBC flight behind an achievement because it’s “quick and easy” - but they would have a problem with it if it was Skyriding that was locked, despite claiming the achievement was “quick and easy.”

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Maizou-proudmoore

but they would have a problem with it if it was Skyriding that was locked,

They did not say that, you are just implying it. But I will say this, if they had done as you said at first, most of us would likely not care.

But you are missing the points he, and others, including myself have been making, and that is the loudest ones don’t speak for all disabled, as someone else said:

@Ghaghzull-malganis

Disable folks like myself aren’t moaning and complaining about pathfinder. Again this Pathfinder requirement is reasonable and more forgiving than previous pathfinder. You and others are on here won’t accept it and you’re by creating a stir in forums that hopefully that Blizzard will caved to you and give you what you want.

So, is it really a disability issue or is it as a lot have thought and people not just accepting that they can’t always get what they want? this is even after ones like Henceforth have said:

@Henceforth-area-52

Now the questions are:

• Is Skyriding REQUIRED to complete the game up to until you are able to get Pathfinder? If not, does Blizzard consider that players can achieve that without Skyriding or do they expect everyone to go through Skyriding up to the moment they get Pathfinder?
• Does Blizzard believe there are players that will not be able to get Pathfinder by themselves because they can’t use Skyriding?

A lot of the achievement arguments just come across as if. even after being told that they will not need Skyriding to complete the achievement, these people still think it will be required.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

They did not say that, you are just implying it.

It’s almost like the post you replied to was me asking them how they would feel if it was like that.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

But you are missing the points he, and others, including myself have been making

People who are disabled are telling you it is ableist and you’re saying “No it isn’t because this person says it’s fine.”

That’s like saying, again, a wheelchair ramp at the top of the stairs isn’t a problem because someone not in a wheelchair that uses a ramp says it’s fine.

Stop trying to put your voice over the people who are telling you it is a problem. Jesus.

Blocked.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

which they have yet to reply to either way, so again, they have not said how they would feel one way or the other. As such, instead of waiting till they responded, you told me

@Maizou-proudmoore

but they would have a problem with it if it was Skyriding that was locked, despite claiming the achievement was “quick and easy.”

So, are you trying to put words in other’s mouths, projecting or anything else to try and fit the narrative you have already made?

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Moused-cairne

Tell me one good reason why some of the disabled players can not have Steady Flight on Day 1…please give one good reason…steady flight is more interactive then dynamic flying…bots can bot with dynamic flying…so its not that…so again why can’t we players whom have physical or medical issues with Dynamic flight not have it on day 1?

There is no reason not too allow Steady Flight on day 1 of TWW…we all played the Dragon flying Game during Dragon Flight …we killed our hands or eyes or stomachs to use Dragon flying and then had to wait a year to get Steady Flight…for it only to be stuck behind a path finder too…why keep punishing players that want to use a flight that is easier for them by making them do a path finder before they can use steady flight.

Patchfinder is collectively punishing players that choose to play differently. At this point the problem is deeper than that. But we can see this flawed thinking with how they are putting in a super long delay to switch between TBC normal flying and DR. Bottom line is that when you have game decisions that are incongruent and not consistent it causes issues. Another example in beta is how the healing changes are not complete or followed through properly to be balanced and fair. BlizZard is failing to communicate and follow through properly to make things reasonable and that is the bigger issue. When they start to say one thing but do another that is a big problem.

That is not a good look by BlizZard because in the end it causes players to question their leadership or lack of by not being consistent with how they design the game.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Foxmulder-the-venture-co

@Whiteboi-illidan

Large part of the community appreciates dragon flying but we don’t like it

No, you don’t like it.

“you” would be included in “we” in this particular case. Hes not alone in disliking DRing. Not by a long shot.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

That is not a good look by BlizZard because in the end it causes players to question their leadership or lack of by not being consistent with how they design the game.

Looking back at the subscription numbers, this has clearly been an issue since 2015.
I mean, games die even when theyre good because newer stuff comes out and looks better, appeals more for whatever reason.
We’ve had perfectly good Malls torn down here recently that were perfect for use…just something else got built and everyone went running to the shiny new thing, lol.
A mall replaced by a mall just down the street. Add a water fountain and watch the lemmings run, lmao.

The game losing subs doesnt bother me so much as WHY the game has been losing subs.

[Ghaghzull-malganis]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

So, is it really a disability issue or is it as a lot have thought and people not just accepting that they can’t always get what they want? this is even after ones like Henceforth have said:

its more of “I will not accept” issue. Since pathfinder was introduce in WoD, some of here complaint “I am force to do chores?! I hate chores!” “I don’t have time to play this game anymore, just give me flying!” I want to fly and I want to fly now!" It was same complaint up to SL. When DR was introduce and most people hated it because its not flying even tho it is. For nine years, we been hearing the same complaint from same customers over and over and I having a hard time believing this time around that DF feature its hurting the disability community. They just hate how pathfinder continue to exist and they also hate DR. for nine years, this been the same topic over and over. Maybe they should take a hint that PF is here to stay.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Liolang-daggerspine

Looking back at the subscription numbers, this has clearly been an issue since 2015.
I mean, games die even when theyre good because newer stuff comes out and looks better, appeals more for whatever reason.
We’ve had perfectly good Malls torn down here recently that were perfect for use…just something else got built and everyone went running to the shiny new thing, lol.
A mall replaced by a mall just down the street. Add a water fountain and watch the lemmings run, lmao.

The game losing subs doesnt bother me so much as WHY the game has been losing subs.

Well they are not consistent so that is the big problem. Gating TBC normal flying communicates to players that it is more valuable than DR which is just handed out. But each player uses the in game tools differently for personal reasons so the value is in the eye of beholder really.

But they know that players have spoken up about TBC normal flying helping them play for persona reasons. That should be enough in terms of feedback as that is pretty clear communication from the player base in general. But players are taking the extra steps to describe in greater detail with their feedback as to why. And in the face of all that BlizZard has really put themselves in pickle because the more they drag their feet the more it looks like they fumbled badly in terms of game design.

The old BlizZard had normal slow flying unlocked first then the faster flying unlocked later. The faster flying was deemed more valuable by the OG devs and I mean it is logical.

The Nu BlizZard gates TBC normal flying which is slower than DR. The advantage TBC normal flying has over DR is hovering. Is hovering that big of a deal? No.

They have had tech to disable hovering and flying over NPCS since WoD expansion. Maybe earlier if I recall. That is over a decade ago.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Julaalu-lightninghoof

We are debating why 98% of everyone is attacking TBC flight.

The ‘why’ in this thread is easy enough. The attentiontrolls need our attention and saying childish, edgy crap, even though its entirely nonsensical, irrelevant and CLEARLY based SOLELY in their emotions, its worth it IF they can get attention of someone…ANYone…in here.

Nothing theyve posted has a shred of reason or logic to it.
Feels like someone I know IRL who just rambles on to hear themselves talk.

Ions an intelligent man, Im sure…so eventually HE will end up connecting the dots and figuring out how bad this current pathfinder thing makes him look, given WHO is targeted by it.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Moused-cairne

Tell me one good reason why some of the disabled players can not have Steady Flight on Day 1

He has no GOOD reason, just ‘muh feelins’, lmao

DRing can move fast enough beyond old flight that its NOT about farming even.
If you can fly faster, it wont matter that someone using old flight is steadier…not by a long shot. Faster wins every time.

So there IS no good reason…no VALID reason…to make lesser abled players…or anyone else for that matter…wait for old flight.
BOTH should require the exact same work and be released at the exact same time

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

So the supposed “problem” boils down to the hovering of TBC normal flying?

BlizZard has tech to dismount players in a certain area of a map or near NPC. It is ten years old or older tech…it has been around for a minute.

BlizZard has used flying creatures throughout the history of the game that fly around to discourage people from hovering above. It has been actually more frequently used in BFA and systemlands respectively.

Most critical quest objectives have always been hidden inside castles, buildings, caves, etc. This design has existed since vanilla and even with the introduction of TBC normal flying in TBC this has continued.

So we are back to square one of the same argument used ten years ago. Hovering is not game breaking because you have to land to complete objectives.

Same way how stealth isn’t game breaking because you can sneak past the entire guards but if you are in the main hall and you must retire a leader then you have to unstealth at some point…

This discourse on what is interactive or not is very juvenile and for BlizZard to stoop so low is a very unprofesssional.

Players will determine how to interact with the game. And if it is balanced and not game breaking there is no point trying to arm twist players to do it the “one way”.

There is more than one way to play the game.

Same trap they fell into with covenants and many other things. There is more than one way people interact with the game world that we call WoW. I have seen people use exclusively goblin gliders and do not even bother with TBC normal flying or DR. Or others use just hearthstones or teleports.

So???

Player choice matters and always matters in a MMORPG.

Period.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

So the supposed “problem” boils down to the hovering of TBC normal flying?

I dont see how does hovering bothers or affects anyone else, so IF they are using that hoax its just a garbage lie.
I see players sitting around the game world AFK hovering…never bothers my game.

Its just like that crap Ion used to pull…'we want you to explore"
Flying has NEVER stopped me from exploring the game world…if anything its allowed me to enjoy seeing that stuff you never see from the ground.

It was just a crap line to justify behavior where the ACTUAL intent was to drag out /played time by using travel time as ‘content’.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Liolang-daggerspine

I dont see how does hovering bothers or affects anyone else, so IF they are using that hoax its just a garbage lie.
I see players sitting around the game world AFK hovering…never bothers my game.

Its just like that crap Ion used to pull…'we want you to explore"
Flying has NEVER stopped me from exploring the game world…if anything its allowed me to enjoy seeing that stuff you never see from the ground.

It was just a crap line to justify behavior where the ACTUAL intent was to drag out /played time by using travel time as ‘content’.

Apparently people AFK and lounging around in cities is not causing server disruption but someone hovering in the game world is a disruption. I do not buy it either what they are selling.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

Apparently people AFK and lounging around in cities is not causing server disruption but someone hovering in the game world is a disruption. I do not buy it either what they are selling.

I think the ONLY ones that AFK flight agitates is the lowbie gankers who cant do REAL pvp against an equal opponent, lol.
Well, that and maybe Ion. He seems like he just cant get past his hatred of flight.

[Nadrela-fenris]

I am guessing you know speaking as a jaded, cynical …well you know the rest.